[consulting] "Socialist" created value-added list forcapitalists $29.99/month; no socialist ranting

Sun Aug 22 23:39:49 UTC 2010

Hallelujiah!

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-----Original Message-----
From: Sami Khan <sami at etopian.net>
Sender: consulting-bounces at drupal.org
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 17:30:06 
To: A list for Drupal consultants and Drupal service/hosting providers<consulting at drupal.org>
Reply-To: sami.khan at etopian.com,
	A list for Drupal consultants and Drupal service/hosting providers
	<consulting at drupal.org>
Subject: Re: [consulting] "Socialist" created value-added list for
 capitalists $29.99/month; no socialist ranting

On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 02:19:31 +0300, Alexei Malinovski
<alexei at malinovski.org> wrote:
> Where is my popcorn???
> 
> Seruously. Shall we stop this offtopic? :)

Yeah. I'm done. I think everyone else is too.

Sami

> 
> 2010/8/23 Frank Nikola <fnikola at cognisync.com>
> 
>> I'm confused. What is the consulting list for? No one is trying to
stifle
>> free speech but just trying to determine the correct content for this
>> list.
>> I think that others who have asked thought the list was for another
>> reason.
>>
>> Sami Khan <sami at etopian.net> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sun, 22 Aug 2010 16:23:46 -0400, "Andrew R. Kelly"
>> ><arkelly at cognisync.com> wrote:
>> >> +1.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> We're abandoning this list if this doesn't stop.
>> >
>> >Us "socialists" are forming a for-pay service (mailing list) for all
the
>> >capitalists who don't wish to discuss important social issues on this
>> list.
>> >It costs $29.95 per month. It has none of this socialist ranting
against
>> >the virtues of capitalism that you don't want to read and only answers
>> your
>> >questions.
>> >
>> >It also has a nice monetized cost associated with it, because we wish
to
>> >extract every dollar of value from all the value we add to your life.
>> >Our
>> >costs to house and feed ourselves and our families are rather massive,
>> >and
>> >we would like to do that.
>> >
>> >All of us socialists who answer your questions for FREE also enjoy our
>> >FREE speech; aint that a bitch?
>> >
>> >If you want a capitalist list, we would be happy to provide one for a
>> >nice
>> >fat fee! Else, quit trying to stifle free speech or leave. We are
>> competent
>> >enough to help ourselves... We created Drupal, we write the code, we
>> >know
>> >our shit!
>> >
>> >Sami
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Andrew
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> From: consulting-bounces at drupal.org
>> >[mailto:consulting-bounces at drupal.org]
>> >> On Behalf Of David Hazel
>> >> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 1:17 PM
>> >> To: sami.khan at etopian.com; A list for Drupal consultants and Drupal
>> >> service/hosting providers
>> >> Subject: Re: [consulting] American Labour Laws & Future of Labour
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Heinz you've been misinformed regarding this list.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> It's not the "consulting" forum.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> It's the "my country/government/social agenda/values" are better
than
>> >your
>> >> "country/government/social agenda/values" rant forum.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> But don't feel bad, I think most of us inadvertently signed up to
the
>> >wrong
>> >> list. Maybe someone should fix the title.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> But that's just my delusional two cents (or whatever the appropriate
>> >> denomination for your preferred currency is).
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -Dave
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 9:00 AM, Sami Khan <sami at etopian.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, 22 Aug 2010 11:30:37 -0400, "Heinz D. Wegener"
>> >> <heinz at simplexcreative.com> wrote:
>> >>> It's amazing to me how much this "consulting" forum is used to
debate
>> >>> socialism vs. capitalism. Socialism is completely counter-intuitive
>> >>> to
>> >>> being a consultant. Being a consultant implies that you are
>> >>> interested
>> >> in
>> >>> finding jobs that will make you money so that you can support your
>> >> family.
>> >>> You are participating in capitalism. This hatred of corporations is
>> >>> foolishness. Success is not evil. Profit is not evil.
>> >>
>> >> If the world was as simple as you make it out to be, and all these
>> >> ideas
>> >> and thoughts can simply be resolved by consulting a few history
books
>> >and
>> >> chanting some mantras about how great everything is... then I might
>> >agree
>> >> with you. The real world is a complex place, if you look around a
bit
>> >> outside of your own life and maybe your circle of friends -- or if
you
>> >have
>> >> ever been down on your luck, you would understand.
>> >>
>> >> The US has a large underclass, approximately 40 million people;
these
>> >> people live below the poverty line. The ideas and the policies are
>> >largely
>> >> to blame for these people being put in their position and not being
>> >> "successful". Profits are not the problem, but when 30% of the
economy
>> >is
>> >> based on financial products for simply allocating money, something
is
>> >> definitely wrong there.
>> >>
>> >> If the things continue to go the way that they have been, this
>> >underclass
>> >> will grow and there is no guarantee that you or someone you care
about
>> >> won't end up in it. Entrepreneurship is contingent upon the economy,
>> >> and
>> >> the economy is contingent upon the middle class for people such as
>> >> yourself. Supporting policies that increase the size of the middle
>> >> class
>> >> and make sure that they have enough money, guarantee that there are
>> >> opportunities to be had. That's the basics. Beyond that there are
>> >questions
>> >> of morality. Is success for some necessary, sure. But to what
extent?
>> >> Unlimited profits? What if that means that the size of the
underclass
>> >> grows, from 40 million to say 80 million or above. Is that a good
way
>> >> to
>> >> support "success"?
>> >>
>> >> There are some who simply debate to win... that is not the aim here.
>> >> The
>> >> aim is to explore where one stands and see where there are in
relation
>> >to
>> >> everyone else. In doing that we create possibilities for futures,
>> >> rather
>> >> than leaving that task to those who are "successful"... because all
>> >> that
>> >> they want is to be more "successful". Which means that they want the
>> >> underclass size to grow.
>> >>
>> >> You are simply self-concerned with your life, and because things are
>> >good
>> >> for you and those that you care about, you rather ignore that there
>> >> are
>> >any
>> >> problems... That sort of reactive auto-control approach is what put
us
>> >in
>> >> the economic situation that we are in right now.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> My father and his family did not emigrate from Germany to America
to
>> >>> experience despair and normalcy. They came with hope, and they had
>> >> nothing.
>> >>> They were hard working people with a desire to succeed in one of
the
>> >> best
>> >>> countries in the world. My father was 6-years-old when they came to
>> >this
>> >>> country. He worked his ass off with the goal of becoming successful
>> >>> and
>> >> was
>> >>> motivated to do so partially because kids would call him a Nazi in
>> >> school
>> >>> just for being from Germany. And guess what? He succeeded. And
guess
>> >> what
>> >>> else? He is the most generous, giving man I know, and has an
amazing
>> >> heart
>> >>> for people. There's your evil capitalist.
>> >>
>> >> The Germans are doing fine at this point. So you would be fine
whether
>> >you
>> >> were in the US or in Germany; probably better if they are from West
>> >> Germany. Anecdotes like this about the reaffirmation of American
Dream
>> >tell
>> >> us nothing about the actual situation on the ground. Certain
>> >> statistics
>> >> paint a different picture. The truth lies somewhere in between.
>> >>
>> >> If you want some anecdotes of people who are not as lucky as you or
>> >> your
>> >> family, look here:
>> >> http://www.youtube.com/user/invisiblepeopletv
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> My father-in-law experienced the same type of success after his
>> >>> family
>> >>> fled from Cuba. Both he and my father both become owners of
>> >>> successful
>> >>> companies. With socialism comes the death of that hope that most
>> >> immigrants
>> >>> had back in the 40's and 50's and still have today.
>> >>
>> >> I think that hope is dead already and it's because of the financial
>> >> banksters, who are motivated by capitalism. It may be the case that
>> >those
>> >> times are gone for good and we will have to settle for some more
>> >> social
>> >> solutions or else face being in the underclass of capitalism.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> Study your history, and
>> >>> learn the truth yourself. Entrepreneurs were, and continue to be,
>> >>> some
>> >> of
>> >>> the primary contributors to America's success.
>> >>
>> >> I am happy for your family. I also don't support totalitarian Cuba,
or
>> >any
>> >> totalitarian socialist economy.
>> >>
>> >>>
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