<div dir="ltr">Gang,<br><br>Thanks for the feedback and discussion. I agree, I should title the video more clearly as an argument for using an HTML helper over a WYSIWYG.<br><br>Regarding paste from Word features. I've only used TinyMCE, but I've never succeeded at getting that to work right. I can never get it do what I want. Like I'll get ordered, but it won't handle strong or emphasis. And then there are all those wacky MS style definitions. <br>
<br>I think the key with TinyMCE is being a ninja of the settings choices and also knowing how those settings are going to play with any of the other input filters you have. To me, the requirement to do all that fussing inherently makes a site less stable and increases the maintainace costs for the client.<br>
<br>One solution that I tried, and rejected, was telling a client certain situations in which they should turn the WYSIWYG off. But they wouldn't remember. And having the link to change to a plane text box was totally confusing. On installs where I do have TinyMCE running, that link never shows cause I require everyone, but me, to use TinyMCE in order to avoid that confusion.<br>
<br>Regarding the stickiness issue and "what if there is no Markdown module in the future?." I think nodes using Markdown degrade rather nicely when the Markdown module is not running. I totally agree with Trevor that converting abandoned Markdown is a lot easier than fixing broken HTML. And in a post HTML world -- nodes without HTML will transition more easily.<br>
<br>I think the fact that copying from Word or a web page and pasting into a plain text box strips out formatting -- is actually a<i> feature</i> of a plain text box. For my clients with TinyMCE, I actually have to add to the workflow: "Copy from Word or the web and then paste into Note Pad. Then copy and paste into the Drupal node/add." Wow -- all so that they can see the photo in the editor instead of a reference to it? <br>
<br>Has anyone else ever had to recommend to clients to paste into Note Pad as an intereim step? One thing that clients don't want are extra steps in the workflow. They think they want this rich editor thing, and I'm experimenting with trying to make the hard sell that they'd be better without it.<br>
<br>Shai<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 8:12 AM, Trevor Twining <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:trevortwining@gmail.com">trevortwining@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
I think it's a neat idea (I'm a textile convert myself), but in a<br>
comparison, I think the examination needs to be a bit more objective. If<br>
you're promoting the benefits of a HTML helper, then a slight rename is<br>
all that's required. It just highlights your bias and then everyone knows.<br>
<br>
As for the sticks forever thing, that's a valid point. If you need to<br>
replace the marked up content at any point, just open the node using it,<br>
and save the filtered content back into the node.<br>
<br>
I also find it easier to search/replace for the helper markup than I do<br>
HTML in case I need to strip it out.<br>
<br>
TT<br>
<div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br>
Yuval Hager wrote:<br>
>> *So I made a screencast comparing the too* <<a href="http://blip.tv/file/1170327" target="_blank">http://blip.tv/file/1170327</a>>. I<br>
>> tried to get a bit funny, whether I succeeded is another matter. Also, I<br>
>> got burned out with iMovie at the end the production values kind of tank at<br>
>> the end.<br>
>><br>
>> It's 7 minutes. Leave a comment on Blip, or here. I'm curious as to what<br>
>> you think of the screencast AND to know about whether you try to convince<br>
>> clients to NOT use a WYSIWYG.<br>
>><br>
><br>
> Yup, it's funny and nice, alas extremely biased. You could claim similar<br>
> unusability claims about marksmarty (how do you create numbered linked lists?<br>
> how do you *see* how your images look etc.).<br>
><br>
> The one thing that keeps me off using marksmarty for content is the fact that<br>
> it sticks forever. Should I want to remove marksmarty, switch to a WYSIWYG or<br>
> move to another CMS later, the content is unusable.<br>
> If marksmarty would have saved the content with HTML, but translated back<br>
> every time I need to edit it, then I would be fine.<br>
><br>
> Actually, this goes back to the 70's when TeX was introduced, and is still one<br>
> of the greatest inventions of content publishing, although the crowd still<br>
> prefers to use (*gasp*) WYSIWYG apps.<br>
><br>
><br>
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Trevor Twining<br>
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