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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>One thing to note on the ledger against contracting, you have to
pay all of the Social Security and Medicare taxes. Salaried employees only pay
half, as the company picks up the other half. This in essence is another 8% hit
against the contractors pay. And don’t forget the more complicated tax form you
have to fill out. </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;
color:#1F497D'>J</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>-Greg<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
consulting-bounces@drupal.org [mailto:consulting-bounces@drupal.org] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Sam Cohen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 17, 2008 5:23 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> A list for Drupal consultants and Drupal service/hosting providers<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [consulting] Salaries<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>This has been really
helpful. There are definitely advantages to a salaried job but unless I'm
missing something, money isn't even close to being one. <br>
<br>
Let's say you're a contractor consistently billing 30 hours a week at $75, so
your annual is about $110,000 a year. According the various formulas, if
it were a paid job, it's equivalent to about $75,000 a year in salary. <br>
<br>
Maybe I'm missing something, but that seems like an enormous cut, especially
after taxes, because as an employee you could potentially lose all your
deductions, from your car, to your home office, to your equipment and
everything else. (and self-employment tax and social security can be lower as
an independent -- if you make yourself an S-corp and have a decent
accountant) <br>
<br>
You're probably talking about $30,000 to $40,000 more after tax dollars as an
independent. And that's if you're just billing 30 hours a week. It
could be a great deal more if you bill a lot of hours. <br>
<br>
To look at it another way, to make the equivalent of $75,000 salary after taxes
as an independent, you'd only have to bill about 17 hours a week at $75 an
hour. <br>
<br>
So it seems to me there are a lot of benefits being an employee -- less stress,
saner hours, being part of a team, learning from others -- but money doesn't
seem to be one of them.<br>
<br>
Sam<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 4:53 AM, Michael Goldsmith <<a
href="mailto:ixlr8@comcast.net">ixlr8@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Another thing to consider, when thinking about how much a
consultant is<br>
worth at a full time gig would be a "bulk discount" on your hours.
It's one<br>
thing if you're buying a single item that you'd pay the full price. But
if<br>
you bought 10, 100, or 1000 of that item, you could probably work a better<br>
deal for buying so many. When you have a full time gig, you have
consistent<br>
work for a, hopefully, indefinite period of time. You can't guarantee
that<br>
you'll have consistent work as an independent contractor. That's worth<br>
giving the employer a discount on your "hourly rate," since they're<br>
ostensibly buying a large quantity of your hours. Remaining consistent
with<br>
the hourly rate = the amount per year, the way I figure it out works<br>
something like this:<br>
<br>
Let's say that I bill at $100 an hour (to keep the numbers nice and round,<br>
and the math easy). A good independent contractor spends about 30% of
their<br>
time doing administrative work. So now we're down to $70 an hour. A
good<br>
benefits package is worth about $10 an hour. I determined this, by adding<br>
the relative costs of health, dental, vision plus standard vacation times,<br>
which comes to a value of about $20K per year for the average family, which<br>
when divided over the course of a year with a 40 hour week, comes to about<br>
$10 an hour. So now we're at $60 an hour. Buying "bulk
hours" I feel, is<br>
usually worth about a 10% discount on hourly rate. That discount comes
off<br>
the top, because you don't bill for your administrative hours spent trying<br>
to find gigs, etc. So now we're at $50/ hour. Which comes to about
$100K a<br>
year, give or take, and Bob's your uncle.<br>
<br>
Just adding in my two cents.<br>
<br>
Thank you very much for your time and consideration,<br>
<br>
Michael Goldsmith<br>
(732) 619-6865 - mobile<br>
<a href="mailto:ixlr8@comcast.net">ixlr8@comcast.net</a> - email<br>
<a href="http://www.platypustheory.com" target="_blank">http://www.platypustheory.com</a>
- website<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:consulting-bounces@drupal.org">consulting-bounces@drupal.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:consulting-bounces@drupal.org">consulting-bounces@drupal.org</a>]<br>
On Behalf Of Fred Jones<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Sent: Wednesday, September 17,
2008 4:20 AM<br>
To: A list for Drupal consultants and Drupal service/hosting providers<br>
Subject: Re: [consulting] Salaries<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>>> Hi Fred,<br>
>> We can talk offline about this, but here are some things to consider:<br>
>> * Who pays your taxes when you are consulting?<br>
>> * Who handles your health insurance?<br>
>> * Do you go on vacations?<br>
>> * What happens when you get sick or come down with a short/long term<br>
>> disability?<br>
>> * Do you attend training events/Drupalcons?<br>
>> * Do you defer money towards a savings plan?<br>
>> * Do you go on interviews or how much non-billable time do you<br>
>> spending<br>
>> sending out your resume or marketing your services?<br>
>> * Do you work or get paid on holidays?<br>
>> * Who handles the administrative duties of your consultancy?<br>
<br>
Good questions. Some have good answers, as in I spend very little<br>
time/money on this or that, but for others you are quite right--these<br>
are real issues.<br>
<br>
>> Anyway, I'm not trying to come down like I'm against freelancing,<br>
>> but these<br>
>> types of factors must be considered when doing an apples to apples<br>
>> comparison of FT v. contract employment. For what it's worth, I<br>
>> grew and<br>
>> sold a staffing firm in Atlanta before getting involved with a<br>
>> Drupal shop<br>
>> with a lifelong friend (that's another story in itself :-). If a<br>
>> consultant<br>
>> was able to maintain a 70% utilization based on a 2080 hour (52<br>
>> weeks x<br>
>> 40/hours) year then that was considered pretty good.<br>
<br>
Interesting. That's $87K a year.<br>
<br>
> Agreed on the 70% -- sounds outstanding for a contractor who's<br>
> handling on their business development opportunities in addition to<br>
> technical work. Within a consulting firm I've always planned on<br>
> 70-80% utilization for a "heads down" type role and 50%-60% for
a role<br>
> that is involved in building the business.<br>
><br>
> In my previous position, I interview a lot of people who were moving<br>
> from independent contracting. One thing that was similar about them<br>
> was that they were typically on the older side of the candidate pool<br>
> (primarily over 40). I found that benefits (retirement and health<br>
> insurance, primarily) were at the top of the list for reasons to join<br>
> a company.<br>
<br>
Very interesting also. My problem is that I am the type of person who<br>
can't work in an office--I must work at home (for better or for<br>
worse). I also can only work 20-30 hours a week, so any of these full<br>
time contracting jobs I have seen offered aren't for me. Well, perhaps<br>
I do work more, but I only BILL 20-30 hours a week. I certainly sit in<br>
front of my PC more than that.<br>
<br>
I tried to create a little programming company once but business is<br>
not my skill--computers is.<br>
<br>
> One way to think about it is the "fully loaded" cost of an
employee --<br>
> I typically use a 40% uplift to budget for an employee. If you're<br>
> pulling in $115K a year as a contractor, then to cover these expense<br>
> at the same level a company does you'd really be paying yourself less<br>
> than $85K.<br>
<br>
Hmmm, Dave's figures came out to $87K (unless I am misunderstanding<br>
something). So either you guys are in cahoots, or you are both right<br>
on.<br>
<br>
My original question was what are people like me making. Michael from<br>
Trellon said:<br>
<br>
> the starting salary for Lead Developer<br>
> positions is between $60k and $80k annually, , and there are 2 financial<br>
> incentive plans in place designed to give people the opportunity to go<br>
> beyond that amount.<br>
<br>
So if I am following this thread correctly, that is the equivalent of<br>
a bit under $60 an hour for a freelancer, just to start. With the<br>
bonuses or whatever they are, one could get more. Sounds like that's<br>
about what I am making. I think.<br>
<br>
Thanks.<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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