Sam and all,<br><br>I think what is at the core of the emerging hostility in this conversation is the idea of a fixed price. If we remove the requirement for a fixed price then it's simply a matter of the market determining who Sam can get for the lowest price to do the best work. The consultants in this field will have their own requirements in terms of hourly rate, terms of engagement, etc.<br>
<br>I think asking a consultant in this area to predict how much utility can be gotten from x amount of hours on y server in advance of even taking a peek is the part of Sam's request that is irksome.<br><br>As some posters have suggested, it may be possible to make a difference in a few hours. But predicting that in advance? I'd be quite suspicious of a consultant that would do that.<br>
<br>Sam, are you indeed asking of a consultant to essentially guarantee "x" amount of utility in advance of taking the job? If you remove that from you spec (or maybe you didn't even intend that), I think folks are close to being on the same page.<br>
<br>Shai<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Sam Cohen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sam@samcohen.com">sam@samcohen.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="im"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br>
<br>Incidentally, I'm very curious why you assume that going through all of your server logs, analyzing your queries, going through "lots of modules" and cleaning up any messes found would take a few hours? </blockquote>
</div><div><br><br>I never said the few hours would include "cleaning up any messes." I said they can make a few suggestions. For example, coming back with some recommendations, such as saying xyz module is causing a lot of the problems and you may want to take the following steps.<br>
<br> </div><div class="im"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">It reminds me of all the people who ask us for help on a site or with a problem that tell us "it's really an easy site/fix", to which I always want to say: "fine, if it's so easy, do it yourself." Really, if it was so easy (I promise you it is not), would you be spending your time looking for an expert? <br>
<div>
</div></blockquote></div><div><br>Thanks Alex. It's always nice to know that I remind you of the type of person you consider yourself far superior to. <br><br>I never said I thought it was easy, which is why I want to hire an expert. Your point of disagreement seems to be that you don't think anything of value can be accomplished in a few hours. It seems to be that quite a bit can be accomplished. No, it won't be as much as a weeks worth of improvements, but at the very least the server can be tweaked and optimized to best handle a Drupal site. <br>
<font color="#888888">
<br>Sam<br><br></font></div><div><div></div><div class="h5"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div>
<br><br clear="all">--<br>Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg<br>ZivTech, LLC<br><a href="http://zivtech.com" target="_blank">http://zivtech.com</a><br><a href="mailto:alex@zivtech.com" target="_blank">alex@zivtech.com</a><br>office: (267) 940-7737<br>
cell: (215) 866-8956<br>
skype: zivtech<br>aim: zivtech<br>
<br><br></div><div><div></div><div><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 8:44 AM, Sam Cohen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sam@samcohen.com" target="_blank">sam@samcohen.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div>On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 3:03 PM, Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Alex@zivtech.com" target="_blank">Alex@zivtech.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Like Greg said, if you can find someone willing to do this for a flat fee, then I'd love to hear more about it. As far as I can tell, there are far too many variables to make it possible to estimate accurately up front. If I were trying to figure out a fixed price I'd personally try to think about what the highest possible price could be, and then charge that price. Otherwise, you are asking the consultant to take a considerable financial risk.<br>
<br>As Khalid mentioned, many shops that handle scaling will offer you more of a fixed price if they control the servers, which seems reasonable. <br><br>I, for one, think that you are seriously undervaluing server and general LAMP stack support, but maybe I'm not understanding what you are looking for. What do you mean by, for example, "Load Balancing"? That makes it seem to me that you are talking about scaling a site that requires more than one server, but given the budgets you seem to be working with, that doesn't seem like a good assumption (someone who requires more than one server should be able to afford to pay market rates to get it done correctly). <br>
<br>So, my question is: what exactly are the problems that you are facing that require a server/scaling specialist?<br></blockquote></div><div><br><br><br>The scenario here is a D6 site on a VPS with a lot of modules that is quite sluggish. What I'd hope someone can accomplish in a couple of hours would be to analyze all server and software configs to see if anything can be installed or tweaked to improve performance. This might include MySQL, PHP, Apache settings -- or even if there's any unecessary software on the VPS than can be disabled or tweaked. And installing anything that might help. There's a lot of information out there on ways to do this yourself, but I'd rather hire someone who knows what they are doing to take care of it. I'd also like them, if it's possible, to be able to test the VPS to make sure that it's performing as well as it should be. <br>
<br>As for the site, I imagine that this person can use devel module to analyze the query queue and perhaps make some suggestions -- maybe there's a poorly written module that's eating up a lot of resources. Maybe there's a caching module I overlooked. Maybe there's alternate approaches to getting the job done that wouldn't use as many resources.<br>
<br>It seems to me someone should be able to accomplish a lot in these two areas in a few hours -- and it would be a great service I'd love to be able to offer to my clients.<br><br>(As for load balancing, my thinking there was with regard to a managed dedicated server I run that has about 30 drupal sites. My thinking was that such a person might know ways to install software that would allow me to balance the load so that one site wouldn't be using up more resources -- or at least help me analyze what resources each site is using.)<br>
<br>Maybe I'm wrong, but it does seem like for a fixed rate for a few hours someone who knows what they are doing should be able to accomplish a lot and make recommendations for going forward. It would also be nice to have such a person available as a site grows and if it needs to scale.<br>
<br>Thanks,<br><font color="#888888">Sam<br><br><br><br><br><br> </font></div><div><div></div><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br clear="all">--<br><font color="#888888">Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg<br>
ZivTech, LLC<br><a href="http://zivtech.com" target="_blank">http://zivtech.com</a><br>
<a href="mailto:alex@zivtech.com" target="_blank">alex@zivtech.com</a><br>office: (267) 940-7737<br>cell: (215) 866-8956<br>skype: zivtech<br>aim: zivtech</font><div><div></div><div><br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 11:34 AM, Sam Cohen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sam@samcohen.com" target="_blank">sam@samcohen.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Thanks Greg,<br><br>I understand there are a lot of firms offering this service, but what I'm really hoping for is someone who had a deep understanding of server and performance issues and can spend a couple of hours analyzing a site and making adjustments. <br>
<br>I'm not looking for a large shop that will charge thousands of dollars for this service, but a consultant who has expertise in this area and would charge fair market value for a few hours of their time. <br><br>
By flat rate, I mean a willingness to give a price upfront based on the site specs and hosting situation. <br>
<br>Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems that someone with this expertise, might be charging somewhere in $50 to $100 an hour range, and in just a couple of hours they should be able to accomplish quite a lot for a site. <br>
<br>This would be a really valuable service for those of us in the biz who might be very knowledgeable in other areas but don't know much about servers, bottlenecks, load balance, etc -- and don't really want to learn either. <br>
<br>Thanks,<br><font color="#888888">Sam</font><div><div></div><div><br><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Greg Knaddison <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Greg@growingventuresolutions.com" target="_blank">Greg@growingventuresolutions.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">We hit this topic less than a month ago -<br>
<a href="http://lists.drupal.org/pipermail/consulting/2009-March/003088.html" target="_blank">http://lists.drupal.org/pipermail/consulting/2009-March/003088.html</a><br>
<br>
And read the followups as well.<br>
<br>
Also, charging for performance tuning as a flat rate is pretty<br>
interesting. If you find anyone who takes that arrangement please<br>
write back to the list about the experience.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Greg<br>
<div><div></div><div><br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 8:17 AM, Sam Cohen <<a href="mailto:sam@samcohen.com" target="_blank">sam@samcohen.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Does anyone out there offer a Drupal performance site and server tuning<br>
> service -- for a flat rate?<br>
><br>
> Ideally this would include analyzing a site, making changes to the site and<br>
> server as needed in order to improve performance.<br>
><br>
> I think this service would probably be useful to a lot of us, but I<br>
> understand there's that concern about sharing rates over an email list, so<br>
> please email me privately with what you would include and what you would<br>
> charge for such a service.<br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div><font color="#888888">--<br>
Greg Knaddison<br>
<a href="http://knaddison.com" target="_blank">http://knaddison.com</a> | 303-800-5623 | <a href="http://growingventuresolutions.com" target="_blank">http://growingventuresolutions.com</a><br>
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