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On 05/05/2009 03:58 AM, Matt Chapman wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:49FFF1BA.3020307@NinjitsuWeb.com" type="cite">Good
points, Bill, but why should I trust someone half a globe away, with
whom I've never worked with before?
<br>
<br>
Also, I am definitely arguing this from the buyers side, because that
position seemed absent in the discussion. As a seller, I would also
take your position, and probably wouldn't be eager to accept a client
who insisted on my using oDesk either; but then, I'm not on oDesk as a
seller.
<br>
<br>
Again, the question is, do you want to be a coder or a consultant? If
you just want to write code for a living, you're probably going to have
to put up with intrusiveness like oDesk, until everyone knows you're as
good as you claim to be because you wrote Views or DrupalEd or
something. ;-)
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Haven't had to unwillingly put up with oDesk yet, nor do I plan to.
There's been clients who I've had to turn down, but there are a whole
lot more clients out there. <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:49FFF1BA.3020307@NinjitsuWeb.com" type="cite"><br>
Put another way, trust is a fundamental part of the equation when
you're hiring a consultant. But when you're hiring a coder, I don't
need to trust you; I need to know that you know where to put the commas
and the semi-colons, and that you'll write a proper module instead of
sending me a patch for index.php .
<br>
<br>
I think it was kind of intrusive that my boss expected me to show up at
9am and wear pants when I worked in the corporate world. But that's
what I had to do to get my paycheck. I had to save up a few paychecks
before I could fire my boss and win the privilege of working in my
underwear without anyone intruding.
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Wearing pants to work, and having a client feel they have a right to
monitor you during your work day are pretty different. One is to
maintain a look of professionalism, and a good working environment for
all. The other is a sign of control and lack of trust on the part of
your client. <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:49FFF1BA.3020307@NinjitsuWeb.com" type="cite">Oh,
but I forgot, contractors are different from employees. It's OK for
them to over-inflate their experience and bill me for time spent
learning what they said they already knew how to do....
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
When did anyone here condone poor billing practices? Also, time spent
learning is part of the job. I don't expect a $15/hour coder to know
the same amount as a $200/hour coder. That's why we are only paying
$15/hour.<br>
<br>
If the project was to go massively over budget, then I could understand
checking up on the coder you hired a little more thoroughly. Until
then, as long as there is no evidence of them breaking good faith,
leave it at daily status checks, and scheduled deliverable, and keep
lines of friendly communication up over IM or email. <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:49FFF1BA.3020307@NinjitsuWeb.com" type="cite"><br>
Best,
<br>
<br>
Matt
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Bill Fitzgerald wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Hello, all,
<br>
<br>
Been following this, lurking quietly until now -- some quick thoughts:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
<br>
It's part of the difference between consultants and coders. Coders
might not need oDesk; consultants do.
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
No one "needs" oDesk. Work was getting done before oDesk, and will get
done after oDesk.
<br>
<br>
<snip>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">I happen to think oDesk's tools are an even
better solution in many cases, hence I think it perfectly reasonable to
ask a freelancer to use them.
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
At the risk of stating the obvious, we all will structure our
businesses in the way that makes the most sense for us. A potential
client mentioning the use of oDesk would be a huge red flag, and would
likely cause us to turn away the work. For the same reasons, I would
never hire a person where I felt I needed oDesk as a guarantee. It's a
level of intrusiveness that strongly implies a lack of trust.
<br>
<br>
It reminds me of the line from Office Space: "But you know, Bob, that
will only make someone work just hard enough not to get fired."
<br>
<br>
Cheers,
<br>
<br>
Bill
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
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<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<strong>Brian Vuyk</strong><br>
Web Design & Development<br>
T: 613-534-2916<br>
Skype: brianvuyk<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:brian@brianvuyk.com">brian@brianvuyk.com</a> | <a href="http://www.brianvuyk.com">http://www.brianvuyk.com</a>
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