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<p style="margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0pt;">Some assumptions there,
too. I was the managing consultant of an international development
business. I'm a freelancer because I like working from my den, when I
want to, and not deal with office politics. Qualify of life choice. </p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0pt;"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0pt;">Oh, and every job I've
had has been for a company in business to make profit. They, in turn,
were in business due to their suppliers being in business to make
profit. With 80% of the businesses being small capitalist enterprises,
I'm not sure who the socialists would be doing business with, without
them. The unions might be socialist, but their employers are not, their
suppliers are not, and the businesses that most of their customers work
for are not.</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0pt;"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0pt;">Not a testament to
capitalism being the best answer, but then again, similarly, as
Churchill said, "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for
all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."
Capitalism, in terms of driving production, innovation, and breadth of
opportunity, is sort of the same.</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0pt;"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0pt;">But hey, this is about
Drupal consulting. Anyone not wanting to do any paid consulting for
capitalist enterprises, feel free to move over :-)<br>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0pt;"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0pt;">Victor Kane wrote:<br>
</p>
<blockquote
cite="mid:ff176450908070915y222d0b0ak340da847a9d3996d@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">It is amazing what assumptions people bring to the table.
<div>See below.<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Laura <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:pinglaura@gmail.com">pinglaura@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="im">On Aug 7, 2009, at Fri 8/7/09 9:09am, Greg
Knaddison wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 8:29 AM, Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg<<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Alex@zivtech.com" target="_blank">Alex@zivtech.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
But still, what about a Drupal Developers/Shops Guild?<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
3-4 years ago folks started down this path. It died fairly quickly.<br>
I don't think it would actually be helpful at solving the problems it<br>
sets out to solve, though maybe the market is different enough now in<br>
some way that it would be helpful.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
I'm fairly skeptical of this, for a number of reasons:<br>
<br>
1 - It's a way of making money off of developers, instead of helping
clients.<br>
2 - It injects politics.</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Politics are always injected. Especially when different class
interests are being served.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Especially when the status quo is assumed to be taken for
granted.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Right now, joblessness has created a situation where hundreds,
perhaps thousands, of people are forced to go into "freelancing" as a
hidden form of unemployment, and many of them are turning to Drupal.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If a, yes, hideously exploitative scheme like odesk were to be
prevailing, that would adversely affect the interests of all small
Drupal concerns and professionals.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So the politics of crisis, unemployment and forcing the working
class to pay for that crisis has a lot to do with what's going on, and
denying that is... very much politics.</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br>
3 - It creates barriers to entry, especially for those who are
bootstrapping their way into a profession. #2 again.<br>
4 - There's no real way to enforce it internationally. #2 again.<br>
5 - It risks running into antitrust laws. #2 again.<br>
6 - It ultimately carries little meaning in relation to capability,
credibility, integrity, reliability - the things that matter. #2 again.<br>
7 - Who controls it? #2 again.</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If those working for a living controlled it, they could use it
to defend their own class interests and help each other bootstrap, find
work, receive training, etc.</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="im"><br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
I'll maintain my previous stance: the best "certification program" we<br>
have is the <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://drupal.org"
target="_blank">drupal.org</a> user profile.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
I agree. Open Source already opens up information that is usually
hidden, information that certifications, club membership, etc. are
ostensibly intended to reveal indirectly.<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In the current social regime, as I say, I tend to agree. But the
voracious stampede of large corporations towards open source, with all
the advantages and disadvantages that that brings, changes the
situation, and already that pressure exerted on some of the larger
Drupal shops is that much activity already takes place outside of <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://drupal.org">drupal.org</a>.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That's why with the crisis as it is, "business as usual" cannot
go on. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The only way for that to happen is the need for an
internationally organized association of working professionals who see
their objective as that of defending the community as a community of
workers.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br>
I do see a value, however, if someone were to offer affordable training
programs, especially since Drupal is generally not taught in schools.</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For the training programs to be affordable, they need to be
subsidized, by just such an organization. Historically, that has been
the purpose of unions.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Victor Kane</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://awebfactory.com.ar">http://awebfactory.com.ar</a></div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
Laura</font>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
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target="_blank">http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting</a><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
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