Am going through this whole thread in bits and pieces and this is, from the standpoint of a web architec (aka, power-user of Drupal ) who is not a coder, this is the most lucid statement I've read so far. <br><br>Thanks Victor, <br>
liza<br><br><br><br clear="all">Liza Sabater<br><a href="http://culturekitchen.com">http://culturekitchen.com</a><br><a href="http://dailygotham.com">http://dailygotham.com</a><br><a href="http://lizasabater.com">http://lizasabater.com</a><br>
<br>MOB 646.552.7365<br>AIM cultkitdiva<br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 12:15 PM, Victor Kane <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:victorkane@gmail.com">victorkane@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
It is amazing what assumptions people bring to the table.<div>See below.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="im">On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Laura <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:pinglaura@gmail.com" target="_blank">pinglaura@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div>On Aug 7, 2009, at Fri 8/7/09 9:09am, Greg Knaddison wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 8:29 AM, Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg<<a href="mailto:Alex@zivtech.com" target="_blank">Alex@zivtech.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
But still, what about a Drupal Developers/Shops Guild?<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
3-4 years ago folks started down this path. It died fairly quickly.<br>
I don't think it would actually be helpful at solving the problems it<br>
sets out to solve, though maybe the market is different enough now in<br>
some way that it would be helpful.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
I'm fairly skeptical of this, for a number of reasons:<br>
<br>
1 - It's a way of making money off of developers, instead of helping clients.<br>
2 - It injects politics.</blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>Politics are always injected. Especially when different class interests are being served.</div><div><br></div><div>Especially when the status quo is assumed to be taken for granted.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Right now, joblessness has created a situation where hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people are forced to go into "freelancing" as a hidden form of unemployment, and many of them are turning to Drupal.</div>
<div><br></div><div>If a, yes, hideously exploitative scheme like odesk were to be prevailing, that would adversely affect the interests of all small Drupal concerns and professionals.</div><div><br></div><div>So the politics of crisis, unemployment and forcing the working class to pay for that crisis has a lot to do with what's going on, and denying that is... very much politics.</div>
<div class="im">
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br>
3 - It creates barriers to entry, especially for those who are bootstrapping their way into a profession. #2 again.<br>
4 - There's no real way to enforce it internationally. #2 again.<br>
5 - It risks running into antitrust laws. #2 again.<br>
6 - It ultimately carries little meaning in relation to capability, credibility, integrity, reliability - the things that matter. #2 again.<br>
7 - Who controls it? #2 again.</blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>If those working for a living controlled it, they could use it to defend their own class interests and help each other bootstrap, find work, receive training, etc.</div>
<div class="im">
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
I'll maintain my previous stance: the best "certification program" we<br>
have is the <a href="http://drupal.org" target="_blank">drupal.org</a> user profile.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
I agree. Open Source already opens up information that is usually hidden, information that certifications, club membership, etc. are ostensibly intended to reveal indirectly.<br>
</blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>In the current social regime, as I say, I tend to agree. But the voracious stampede of large corporations towards open source, with all the advantages and disadvantages that that brings, changes the situation, and already that pressure exerted on some of the larger Drupal shops is that much activity already takes place outside of <a href="http://drupal.org" target="_blank">drupal.org</a>.</div>
<div><br></div><div>That's why with the crisis as it is, "business as usual" cannot go on. </div><div><br></div><div>The only way for that to happen is the need for an internationally organized association of working professionals who see their objective as that of defending the community as a community of workers.</div>
<div class="im">
<div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br>
I do see a value, however, if someone were to offer affordable training programs, especially since Drupal is generally not taught in schools.</blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>For the training programs to be affordable, they need to be subsidized, by just such an organization. Historically, that has been the purpose of unions.</div>
<div class="im">
<div><br></div><div>Victor Kane</div><div><a href="http://awebfactory.com.ar" target="_blank">http://awebfactory.com.ar</a></div><div> </div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br><font color="#888888">
<br>
Laura</font><div class="im"><div><div></div><div><br>
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