Does anyone realistically think there's even a remote possibility of this happening? Writers and Actors were being exploited by large studios , so that had reason to get together. <br><br>Drupal is a completely different marketplace. <br>
<br>I suggest that the pro-union folks put up a poll and send a link to this list to see if anybody wants this. <br><br>I may be wrong, but my guess is that very few of us have any interest in forming a union. I know I don't. <br>
<br>Sam<br><br>. <br><br><br><blockquote style="margin: 1.5em 0pt;"></blockquote><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 4:27 PM, Alfredo Reyes <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:alfredo.e.reyes@gmail.com">alfredo.e.reyes@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">That's why I put "guilds" in irony quotes. I should have been more explicit. The point about intellectual property remains.<div>
<div></div><div class="h5"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Matt Chapman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Matt@ninjitsuweb.com" target="_blank">Matt@ninjitsuweb.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">I don't know anything about the Graphic Artists Guild, but the Screen Actors Guild and the Writers guild are in fact simply unions, in every way. The are not 'trade associations' and they do not include employers, and they have nothing to do with intellectual property protection.<br>
<br>
Only the Producer's Guild is a trade association. All the other Hollywood guilds are just Unions by another name. There's no such clear definition of the term 'guild' as you suggest.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Matt<br>
<br>
<br>
Alfredo Reyes wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><div></div><div>
Unions and Guilds seem to be getting conflated here, but they are very different things.<br>
<br>
Guilds are like trade associations - they can include employers, workers and independent consultants. Unions are for workers and freelancers only, not for business owners with employees or management-level employees.<br>
<br>
Guilds are medieval in origin. They existed to stifle free trade, protect territorial monopolies, enforce social hierarchies within trades, and to hoard intellectual property. They weren't just fraternities that banded together to educate and certify their members, they actively worked to withhold knowledge from outsiders and new tradesmen. Guilds lost influence in the 18th century, and were criticized by both classical liberals and socialists as stifling free trade and creating inequalities among workers.<br>
<br>
In modern times, in the United States at least, the three most well-known surviving "guilds" are the Screen Actors Guild, the Writers Guild and the Graphic Artists Guild. The primary mission of these guilds is to enforce intellectual property and copyrights. This is problematic for anyone working in the free software field, as the major surviving function of these guilds is to enforce an intellectual property regime that almost all Drupal coders are opposed to, or at least not working within. The only reason these guilds outlasted all the others that passed away over the past 200 years is because they were able to advocate for, create and enforce increasingly restrictive intellectual property laws.<br>
<br>
Unions are workers' organizations. Only non-management employees and freelancers, or Drupal shops organized as membership organizations like Koumbit and the Chicago Technology Cooperative, would be eligible to join. That means some of the people who are influential in the Drupal community and active in the Drupal Association would be excluded from participation in a union, maybe even Dries, if he has the power to hire, fire and discipline Acquia employees.<br>
<br>
The purpose of a union might not only be, as Victor pointed out, defending the entire community of interests of Drupal coders, but also intervening in individual disputes with employers over wages, working conditions and violations of labor law (these do occur, even in Drupal shops that aren't "sweatshops"). Some Drupal employers might see this as a threat to the control of their companies, to their reputations, and to their influence on the overall direction of the Drupal project.<br>
<br>
Another thing a union could do is provide group health insurance, retirement funds, and political advocacy for fairer treatment of freelancers. This is what the already-existing Freelancers Union (<a href="http://www.freelancersunion.org" target="_blank">http://www.freelancersunion.org</a>) does. There's nothing stopping any Drupal freelancer from joining this union immediately, but of course, employees of Drupal shops can't join, and the Freelancer's Union does not intervene in employer disputes. Perhaps a tech union not limited to freelancers could provide similar services for all Drupalists, as well as expand into contractual relations with individual shops, although I suspect the demand for the latter would be quite low. It should be pointed out that most, but not all unions in the United States are organized by workplace, while it is more common for union membership in Europe and elsewhere to "follow" the worker from job to job, not depending on contractual relations with individual employers. Perhaps this more flexible model is what IT workers need.<br>
<br>
A union could also provide certifications, events and training, but the barriers to entry to those programs should be low (affordable, available in many locations internationally, and not requiring that you sign away your rights and privacy oDesk-style) and have a firm ground in open source ideals.<br>
<br>
A union could also function as a more democratic counterbalance to the Drupal Association by allowing all its members to constitute a general assembly with voting rights, rather than limiting such rights to a few permanent members like the Drupal Association does.<br>
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