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<p style="margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0pt;">So if I disagree, I
have to show proof of my knowledge, while you can just state your case
like Microsoft being an example of argument for unions resulting in a
superior product? I really don't need to go and get contracts to post.
If a teacher is a coach after school (here..I can only speak for the
U.S.), they get paid. If they have a free period and want to let art
students gather and create something, and they will merely supervise
them without even teaching, they have to be paid for that hour. </p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0pt;"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0pt;">I think it's just a
difference in result and economy. Here, in the U.S. there are arguments
for trade unions in certain circumstances, but having had them longer
than anywhere else (not talking about guilds), the result has not been
positive for non-production-line work (which is why most of the country
is not union labor for that type of work, and for all work), and why we
are buying products from other countries more and more, because when
the market dictates a lower price, in many cases the company ends up
closing because union contracts prevent the kind of rapid changes that
would be necessary to respond.</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0pt;"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0pt;">I don't think you would
a majority in favor of a union in the U.S. for our work. First of all,
union employees here are almost always hourly. Secondly, we have been
free to organize at any point in the last 30 years (the 30 being just a
figure to represent how long software development has been a large
'trade') and no one has. Perhaps Microsoft, but I don't know if the
developers there, as opposed to the other positions, are Union.</p>
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</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0pt;"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0pt;">Victor Kane wrote:<br>
</p>
<blockquote
cite="mid:ff176450908101142q723ee123y6b87e236122dd926@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">To continue a serious discussion, you would need to show
proof of your affirmations.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Since plenty of teachers volunteer for plenty of things, I think
your facts are suspect.</div>
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<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 3:36 PM, Ayen
Designs <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:info@ayendesigns.com">info@ayendesigns.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div style="direction: ltr;" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<p style="margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0pt;">One other point.
Union
contracts forbid their members from doing work at no pay. For example,
a union teacher cannot volunteer to spend her free time overseeing an
informal or unofficial class or activity. That would make Open Source
contributors the 'scabs' ... those who do something to undermine the
union.</p>
<br>
<div>-- <br>
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<br>
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<br>
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