Microsoft workers won a historic union battle (organized in the writers union) when Microsoft did not want to pay overtime to contracted workers.<div><br></div><div>just one example.</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Sami Khan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sami@etopian.net">sami@etopian.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
The quality of work is not directly contingent to whether or not the<br>
workers are in labour unions -- perhaps partially contingent based on<br>
whether lousy workers can easily be disposed of or not... but that<br>
depends on the standards of the union. If at the founding of the union<br>
you set a bar and say that if you do generally lousy work you can be<br>
dismissed or have to be re-educated then you can control the quality of<br>
work as well.<br>
<br>
The point of unions though is to protect a market in favour of the<br>
employees -- to the extent the market is under the control of all the<br>
workers united. Do unions produce better work, perhaps or perhaps not.<br>
Does the non-unionized worker like the a Chinese worker produce the best<br>
products, or the safest, or is best for both the workers or consumers?<br>
In their case, everyone belongs to the same union, hence they are in a<br>
purely capitalistic environment. How does that fare for the average<br>
Chinese worker?<br>
<br>
I think however that there is no way to make a blanket statement. IT has<br>
not had to deal with unions because it has been generally a high payed<br>
sort of profession. Over time that's changing, to the point that it's<br>
becoming more and more important due to the economic conditions,<br>
outsourcing etc. for IT workers to protect their interests. If that also<br>
means at the same time protecting quality, it can be done. That we want<br>
to protect workers rights, but not at the quality of the product can be<br>
a rallying cry for such a movement.<br>
<br>
In the end any objectives can be met, they simply have to be defined and<br>
power used creatively to reach a good compromise that serves those which<br>
are affected by it... That's the point. Non-unionized workers can be<br>
arrogant just as long as there is well-paying work for what they do. You<br>
will not get the same arguments from anyone who is poor, broke, or whose<br>
market has been cannibalized by opportunistic companies.<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<font color="#888888">Sami<br>
</font><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
On Mon, 2009-08-10 at 13:56 -0400, Ayen Designs wrote:<br>
> Union labor means superior product? Not. I can buy a handcrafted<br>
> motorcycle that's a better product than anything for sale in the<br>
> store. I can buy a handcrafted bedroom set that's better than anything<br>
> for sale in the furniture store. Here, I've lived in the northeast,<br>
> where all construction and utility work is union, and the southeast,<br>
> where it's not, and if there is any quality difference on my home,<br>
> it's better in the southeast, at a fraction of the price. Home<br>
> schooled and privately schooled (non-government) children do<br>
> consistently better (here in the U.S.) in testing than those educated<br>
> by union labor (although the government controlling the curriculum<br>
> plays a part there), on and on. Unions might mean higher quality on an<br>
> assembly line, but development is not an assembly line, the last time<br>
> I looked. I'd like a good example of where creativity and intuition<br>
> plays as much a role in the product as it does in development, rather<br>
> than rote, and the end-product is demonstratively of higher quality<br>
> because of a union.<br>
><br>
> Victor Kane wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
> > A union contract?<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > All work done with union labor speaks of a superior quality.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
><br>
> --<br>
><br>
><br>
> Ayen Designs<br>
> 388 Bullsboro Drive #105 · Newnan, Georgia 30263<br>
> 404-271-9734<br>
> <a href="http://ayendesigns.com" target="_blank">ayendesigns.com</a><br>
><br>
> Ayen Designs is a tradename of the computer services division of<br>
><br>
><br>
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