ok, so it's acceptable on this list to say "shut the f*!k up if you don't agree with me?" Or do some of you just don't know what STFU stands for?<br><blockquote style="margin: 1.5em 0pt;"></blockquote>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 1:58 PM, Dries Buytaert <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dries.buytaert@gmail.com">dries.buytaert@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
I have to agree with what George said. For me, Evan's comments were amongst the most insightful in this discussion.<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
On 11 Aug 2009, at 18:14, George D. DeMet wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Evan is sharing his experience having worked with community-based certification programs with other open source projects. He's taken a very strong position on the issue, but it's also one that's backed up with evidence, and I don't see it as fear-mongering at all. Personally, I've found his perspective among the most interesting ones in this entire thread.<br>
<br>
Victor Kane wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Just stating the need for certification so blatently is a form of fearmongering.<br>
Stating "in actual experience" as an absolute is a form of fearmongering.<br>
But STFU is inappropriate either for or against.<br>
STFU is a form of fearmongering.<br>
<br>
Victor Kane<br>
<a href="http://awebfactory.com.ar" target="_blank">http://awebfactory.com.ar</a><br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Evan Leibovitch <<a href="mailto:evan@telly.org" target="_blank">evan@telly.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:evan@telly.org" target="_blank">evan@telly.org</a>>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Laura wrote:<br>
> I have trouble with this statement. There are reasons some might<br>
> believe that "certification" could be bad for the community, as have<br>
> been expressed here. So STFU is not the right message here, as<br>
it was<br>
> not in the previous email a couple of days go, imho.<br>
<br>
In actual experience there is no evidence to show that any existing<br>
certification related to open source projects (LPI, BSDCert, MySQL,<br>
Zend, Ubuntu, RHCE, etc.) has caused any damage to their related<br>
communities. Indeed, just the opposite has occurred, with both direct<br>
and indirect new business ventures and job opportunities arising from<br>
their existence. Those parts of the respective communities who like<br>
certification get involved, those who don't ignore it and are<br>
unaffected.<br>
<br>
The onus is on opponents to demonstrate -- rather than just<br>
theorize --<br>
damage to the community, given the large number of existing models<br>
available to examine. Without evidence the opposition is just<br>
fearmongering, and in my opinion STFU is an appropriate response to<br>
fearmongering of any kind.<br>
<br>
- Evan<br>
<br>
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George D. DeMet<br>
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Dries Buytaert :: <a href="http://buytaert.net" target="_blank">http://buytaert.net</a></font><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
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