On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 3:53 PM, nan wich <<a href="mailto:nan_wich@bellsouth.net">nan_wich@bellsouth.net</a>> wrote:<br>><br>> Well, Alex, as a developer, I love that wording. However, if I were the customer I would never sign such a contract. While I would probably allow you to contribute back to Drupal, that would be my decision, not yours to make.<br>
> <br>Then they most likely won't get a good Drupal developer, all of whom will want to retain the right to submit back patches, modules, etc. that are created through the project.<br><br>> Your analogy just doesn't make sense to me. I wouldn't even dream of claiming the tools I used for my own. But I can guarantee you that the author of that book will enforce his/her copyright to the contents.<br>
> <br><br>You're misunderstanding the situation here on a fundamental level. I am talking about keeping ownership of the tools we created which were used by the client to write the book (i.e. Office, Open Office, or even a pencil and paper), not the text or even the physical book itself (i.e. 'Fight Club' or 'Curious George'). Here's another paragraph from our contract that should clarify what we are, and are not, applying the GPL to. <br>
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<p class="Default" style="margin-left: 0in; text-indent: 0in; page-break-after: avoid;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span style=""><span style="font: 7pt "Times New Roman";"></span></span></span><b style=""><u><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Company Materials</span></u></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">.<span style=""> </span><b style=""><u></u></b></span></p>
<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif";">In connection with performance of the Website
Services, the Company shall provide all creative, content and other material
for the Company Website, or provide written approval for the Consultant Firm's
creation of the same (collectively, the "<u>Company Materials</u>").<span style=""> </span>The Company Material shall include (1) the contents
of the Company's Drupal database and other data generated by the Company or by
users of the Company Website; (2) the Company's contributions such as the
Company Website's content; (3) and the Company's domain names, marks and logos.<span style=""> </span>Company Materials shall not include any
Drupal software, the Consultant Firm's Drupal-related techniques and
procedures, or any other material covered by the GNU GPL.<br style="">
</span><br><br>> While working for someone else, I have now developed at least three modules that the general public might want. I have received permission from the companies that I wrote them for to submit them to DO. One is already live, and I have two more that need to be cleaned up before I can submit them. On the two most recent, the company doesn't even want attribution, although I think they deserve it.<br>
> <br><br>It's fine for you to ask them for permission, and keep in mind that we do as well, we just do it at the beginning before we even get started. Also keep in mind that <i>by far</i> the vast majority of items we are contributing back <i>are not modules</i>, but rather patches to existing core and contrib modules, which makes your process impossible or irresponsibly lengthy. (you can get an idea of the different types of contributions we make here, though we don't list the vast majority of our patches: <a href="http://www.zivtech.com/community/contributions">http://www.zivtech.com/community/contributions</a> )<br>
<br>In the end our clients gain a very large amount of value from our way of working with Open Source. If you aren't contributing your patches back than you are essentially forking Drupal and/or the modules you're patching, and you must maintain those patches for the life of the project. Our way of working makes their site more stable, easier to work with for future developers, and lowers the long term costs for maintaining the site's code base. And that's why we've never had a client back away from a deal as a result of the clause I posted before.<br>
<br>> Nancy E. Wichmann, PMP<br>><br>> Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. -- Dr. Martin L. King, Jr.<br>><br>> ________________________________<br>> From: Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg <<a href="mailto:alex@zivtech.com">alex@zivtech.com</a>><br>
> To: A list for Drupal consultants and Drupal service/hosting providers <<a href="mailto:consulting@drupal.org">consulting@drupal.org</a>><br>> Sent: Sat, April 24, 2010 11:16:09 AM<br>> Subject: Re: [consulting] Copyright<br>
><br>> While IANAL, here's a part of our standard contract that deals with this:<br>> ---<br>><br>> Proprietary Rights.<br>><br>> The Drupal software programs used by Consultant Firm, and all of the associated modules and themes installed on the Company Website are licensed under a GNU General Public License, and all code and techniques shall be licensed as the same and may be submitted back to the Drupal software community as the Consultant Firm sees fit. Nothing in this Agreement shall preclude the Consultant Firm from using in any manner or for any purpose it deems necessary the know-how, techniques or procedures acquired or used by Consultant Firm in the performance of the Website Services (the "Drupal-Related Techniques and Procedures"), and same shall remain Consultant Firm's sole and exclusive intellectual property. To the extent necessary for operation of the Company Website, the Consultant Firm grants to the Company a non-exclusive and non-transferrable license to use the Drupal-Related Techniques and Procedures.<br>
><br>> ---<br>><br>> In my opinion, a client that ask for IP rights over your Drupal related work is equivalent to an author writing The Best Book of all Time on MS Office and then claiming that, because of their brilliant writing, they now own Office and everyone who uses Office must now pay them a royalty. They own the site, but the tools aren't theirs, and if they need IP rights over everything that runs their site/application then they shouldn't use Open Source.<br>
><br>> --<br>> Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg<br>> Partner | Business Lead<br>> Zivtech, LLC<br>> <a href="http://zivtech.com">http://zivtech.com</a><br>> <a href="mailto:alex@zivtech.com">alex@zivtech.com</a><br>
> office: (267) 940-7737<br>> cell: (215) 866-8956<br>><br>><br>> On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 7:48 AM, Jeremy Weiss <<a href="mailto:eccentric.one@gmail.com">eccentric.one@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>>><br>
>> From Circular 9, by the US Copyright Office (<a href="http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ09.pdf">www.copyright.gov/circs/circ09.pdf</a>)<br>>><br>>> <br>>><br>>> Under the 1976 Copyright Act as amended (title 17 of the United States Code),<br>
>><br>>> a work is protected by copyright from the time it is created in a fixed form. In<br>>><br>>> other words, when a work is written down or otherwise set into tangible form,<br>>><br>>> the copyright immediately becomes the property of the author who created it.<br>
>><br>>> Only the author or those deriving their rights from the author can rightfully<br>>><br>>> claim copyright.<br>>><br>>> Although the general rule is that the person who creates a work is the author<br>
>><br>>> of that work, there is an exception to that principle: the copyright law defines a<br>>><br>>> category of works called “works made for hire.” If a work is “made for hire,” the<br>>><br>
>> employer, and not the employee, is considered the author. The employer may<br>>><br>>> be a firm, an organization, or an individual.<br>>><br>>> To understand the complex concept of a work made for hire, it is necessary<br>
>><br>>> to refer not only to the statutory definition but also to its interpretation in cases<br>>><br>>> decided by courts.<br>>><br>>> <br>>><br>>> <br>>><br>>> Basically, I've always been told by various attorney's that unless my agreement with a client specifically stated that it wasn't a work for made for hire situation, then it was. YMMV, IANAL, etc.<br>
>><br>>> <br>>><br>>> -jeremy<br>>><br>>> <br>>><br>>> <br>>><br>>> <br>>><br>>> From: <a href="mailto:consulting-bounces@drupal.org">consulting-bounces@drupal.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:consulting-bounces@drupal.org">consulting-bounces@drupal.org</a>] On Behalf Of George Lee<br>
>> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 7:55 AM<br>>> To: <a href="mailto:consulting@drupal.org">consulting@drupal.org</a><br>>> Subject: [consulting] Copyright<br>>><br>>> <br>>><br>>> Hi,<br>
>><br>>> When folks are doing contract work developing modules, is it typical to retain copyright over code or to give copyright to the folks who are contracting out to you? Do folks have legal contract language for both scenarios?<br>
>><br>>> Peace, community, justice,<br>>> - George<br>>><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> consulting mailing list<br>>> <a href="mailto:consulting@drupal.org">consulting@drupal.org</a><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting">http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting</a><br>>><br>><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> consulting mailing list<br>
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