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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-GB link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I do the same for one charity – I gave out logins etc in the hope that someone might take up the baton but to no avail. Needless to say I still receive requests to put content on the site. I have resolved to add content to a blog with photos etc once a month – doesn’t take long and keeps everyone happy – the cause is an excellent one and keeps my conscience clear. I have also added RSS to the blog – that said the initial work took up a lot of my time. All said and done charities are not in my experience, blessed with techies and they need help like that which this thread offers – I’ll raise my glass to those that get involved – Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>PS – if you want an inspiring read and no, this is not a plug, try ‘The Boy Who Harnessed The Wind’ – it’ll make your efforts seem very worthwhile.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> consulting-bounces@drupal.org [mailto:consulting-bounces@drupal.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Seth Freach<br><b>Sent:</b> 11 May 2010 20:02<br><b>To:</b> A list for Drupal consultants and Drupal service/hosting providers<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [consulting] Volunteering / NPOs (was: Keeping Web Sites Updated)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Like Matt and Emma, I have built more than a few sites and toolsets for un/underfunded organizations that I care about or am involved with on a volunteer basis, only to see them collect cobwebs or get mothballed. Discouraging doesn't begin to describe it. (I once did a pro bono site with a couple of tiers of permissioned users such for controlled contributions, editing, and administration, events management calendar, blogs, full CiviCRM backend, and theme work. Then did training sessions and offered to do more. Only for it to sit there for 2 years and ultimately get replaced with a MS frontpage site that the director felt more comfortable with.)<br><br>I still do (too much!) volunteer work, but have learned a few tactics that I now use:<o:p></o:p></p><ol start=1 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>I state, upfront, that I'd be happy to build tools for others to use, but that I won't be using these tools, others will have to. I then repeat this over and over throughout the project. I can usually get this across by asking "When would you like to get the training on this?" or "Who am I going to train to do this?"<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>I try to get them to recognize that as a single volunteer that I have strengths and weaknesses. I usually state that I'm a "cogs and gears, under the hood" guy and am not strong in the graphic design department (which is the truth, it's not a strong area of mine...) I talk to them about going rates, firms and designers I know of who do drupal themes, and realistic expectations about hiring someone to do theme work and then try and get at least the initial theme work done for hire. This does two things: A) Frees me from doing theme work :) and B) Gets them to invest a little monetary buy-in to the project. Now they have skin in the game to make this project succeed, but it isn't a full tens of thousands of dollars price tag that they would have never been able to afford. This one isn't always possible, but can be a good indication of the amount of willingness they have to make the project succeed out of the gates and whether this is something they need vs. something that they'd just be willing to take for free if it was offered.<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Most important, I've found, is exactly what Matt said about using an Agile approach. I do little bits at a time and say, "there you go, that part is done and ready for you to start using". It becomes apparent very quickly if the site/toolset is actually going to get used or not and if it's worth it for me to invest any more of my unpaid free time into the project.<o:p></o:p></li></ol><p class=MsoNormal><br>Seth<br><br>Matt Chapman wrote: <o:p></o:p></p><pre>On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 10:04 AM, Emma Irwin <a href="mailto:emma.irwin@gmail.com"><emma.irwin@gmail.com></a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>As a volunteer Drupal developer in my community, I often find that my<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>frustration is getting organizations to follow through on *their* role in<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>the process.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> Everyone agrees ( in the beginning) how great it would be to update their<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>own content, it all sounds *wonderful* and everyone is in love . But, once<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>we get to the point where that's possible they still want help - they don't<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>have time...it's more work than they bargained for etc.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>I've had the exact same experience more than once.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre> but it's<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>almost made me want to *charge* something, as sometimes money means people<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>will follow through.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Charging "something" doesn't actually change the situation either,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>because when you're working with an organization you care about, you<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>end up going above & beyond the financial agreement, and probably<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>charged below market rates to begin with, with the same end result as<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>above.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>And I've also seen money-based relationships ruin non-profits because<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>of corruption or the evolution of a sense of entitlement to the funds.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>I don't want to risk seeing myself become (or be percieved) that way,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>so now I refuse to accept money for my labor from non-profits that I<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>am personally involved with; but because of the phenomenon that Emma<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>points out, that often means sub-par projects. It's a lose-lose<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>situation. (Full disclosure: I still have paying NPO clients; but they<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>came to me seeking paid services, without my prior involvement in<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>their work. They aren't in my community, and I don't use their<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>services myself.)<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>At this point, that really means the best I can do is serve as a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>consultant, providing advice on who to hire or what services to use.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>And I've even seen that fail, when the org uses some other volunteer<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>to lead the project, who then loses interest despite my support. Has<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>anyone else found a better solution to this dilemma?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Lastly, to avoid painting too bleak a picture, I've had just as many<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>wonderful relationships with NPOs and Volunteering. But I'd like to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>see even fewer frustrations and failures. Any thoughts? The best I've<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>got is to try to adapt an Agile process to NPO work, where you give<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>them something minimally acceptable as quickly as possible, as see how<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>it goes. But you don't want to be stuck with an open-ended hours<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>arrangement when its volunteer or below-market work either. Argh....<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>All the Best,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Matt Chapman<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Ninjitsu Web Development<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>--<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>The contents of this message should be assumed to be Confidential, and<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>may not be disclosed without permission of the sender.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>consulting mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:consulting@drupal.org">consulting@drupal.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting">http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre></div></body></html>