Not to repeat these things over and over again:<div><br></div><div>The basic question is, what is the relationship of forces (via strikes, direct action, etc) between the working class and the bosses.</div><div><br></div><div>
If we are all isolated, they can do what they like. Which is dire, as things get worse due to the crisis.</div><div><br></div><div>If we fight together, in a union or other forms of organization, they can't do as they like.</div>
<div><br></div><div>If you buy the myth that it's impossible to organize, we're all screwed.</div><div><br></div><div>If we organize, we win.</div><div><br></div><div>But we can only organize if we fight to change society, that's the only way to organize without creating yet another bureaucracy.</div>
<div><br></div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 4:05 PM, Jeff Greenberg <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jeff@ayendesigns.com">jeff@ayendesigns.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
I don't think the thoughts represent anything new here. The extreme<br>
right feel that people should be free to choose (or not) everything. The<br>
extreme left feel that the government should provide everything or<br>
otherwise control it. Most people fall in between.<br>
<br>
This country might seem to be one of corporations, but it's primarily of<br>
small businesses. Every mandate costs them money. Every mandate is paid<br>
for by taxing them, which causes some to close or raise prices, which<br>
costs everyone else more.<br>
<br>
It seems to me that successful companies can be measured by innovation,<br>
discovery, and ongoing success. To achieve that, they have to attract<br>
the best and brightest talent, and have a market. To do that they have<br>
to invest in their people and research and development. To do that, they<br>
need profit, rather than have it redirected by the government. How many<br>
of these other societies that burden businesses so heavily lead the<br>
world in technological and scientific discovery? I don't recall Canada<br>
being at the top of the list.<br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
On 08/21/2010 02:53 PM, Sami Khan wrote:<br>
><br>
>> I'm not sure as to why this is much of a surprise.<br>
>><br>
> Because many other people in other countries (like mine) get a better<br>
> deal... and their societies work just fine. Society is a massive game and<br>
> we control all the rules. It is better if the rules are utilitarian meaning<br>
> the greatest good for the greatest number of people rather than favouring<br>
> the few at the cost of the many so that they may make even more wealth. I<br>
> would find it acceptable to take every penny they have say over a million<br>
> dollars and redistribute it to entrepreneurs with viable business ideas.<br>
><br>
><br>
>> There are certain<br>
>> protections, and the rest is a consumer market like anything else. In<br>
>> other words, if you don't like the wage, if you don't like the benefits<br>
>> package, if you don't like the job title or the wallpaper ... don't take<br>
>><br>
><br>
>> the job.<br>
>><br>
> The question then is not whether or not protection should exist, but which<br>
> rules should exist so that they create the greatest amount of good for all<br>
> who are involved... Not just the shareholders but the stakeholders too.<br>
> That does not mean management goes away, or that disparity is eliminated...<br>
> but that it is reduced to the greatest level possible while keeping the<br>
> system function. Thereby limiting the leisure class significantly rather<br>
> than magnifying its power.<br>
><br>
><br>
>> On the other hand, there are protections here that are NOT afforded<br>
>> elsewhere. If you are asked in an interview about your marital status,<br>
>> location of residence, past times, religious participation, etc., and do<br>
>><br>
><br>
>> not receive the job, you can sue (which is why companies in the know<br>
>> train their staff not to ask such questions). I know people in other<br>
>> countries (especially in Asia) who have been asked in an interview why<br>
>> they are not married, what their parents do for a living, when they met<br>
>> their boyfriend and how, and if they had sex outside of marriage.<br>
>><br>
> I am sure there are countries like this, India being a prime example of<br>
> where some of these questions might be asked. I consider such environment<br>
> failures and I think only because of overpopulation they can get away with<br>
> this sort of shit; too much competition. I don't think we want to emulate<br>
> failure, I think we want to emulate success.<br>
><br>
> I don't particularly care about shareholders.<br>
><br>
> If every citizen thought like a business, which is the purview of<br>
> economists, then I think every citizen should be strategic in maximizing<br>
> their personal utility... They should all be taught to behave rationally<br>
> and treat their lives like a business. That means attempting to maximize<br>
> personal profit at the cost of everyone and looking out only for their<br>
> shareholders: i.e. themselves... Which would then in turn lead most<br>
> businesses to fail and society to fall into pieces because of the zero sum<br>
> game which would be created. It is good for corporations and societies that<br>
> employees for the most part don't behave this way. It would therefore be<br>
> good for employees and society if corporations did not behave this way<br>
> either.<br>
><br>
><br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>