Where is my popcorn???<br><br>Seruously. Shall we stop this offtopic? :)<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2010/8/23 Frank Nikola <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:fnikola@cognisync.com">fnikola@cognisync.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">I'm confused. What is the consulting list for? No one is trying to stifle free speech but just trying to determine the correct content for this list. I think that others who have asked thought the list was for another reason.<br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
Sami Khan <<a href="mailto:sami@etopian.net">sami@etopian.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
>On Sun, 22 Aug 2010 16:23:46 -0400, "Andrew R. Kelly"<br>
><<a href="mailto:arkelly@cognisync.com">arkelly@cognisync.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> +1.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> We're abandoning this list if this doesn't stop.<br>
><br>
>Us "socialists" are forming a for-pay service (mailing list) for all the<br>
>capitalists who don't wish to discuss important social issues on this list.<br>
>It costs $29.95 per month. It has none of this socialist ranting against<br>
>the virtues of capitalism that you don't want to read and only answers your<br>
>questions.<br>
><br>
>It also has a nice monetized cost associated with it, because we wish to<br>
>extract every dollar of value from all the value we add to your life. Our<br>
>costs to house and feed ourselves and our families are rather massive, and<br>
>we would like to do that.<br>
><br>
>All of us socialists who answer your questions for FREE also enjoy our<br>
>FREE speech; aint that a bitch?<br>
><br>
>If you want a capitalist list, we would be happy to provide one for a nice<br>
>fat fee! Else, quit trying to stifle free speech or leave. We are competent<br>
>enough to help ourselves... We created Drupal, we write the code, we know<br>
>our shit!<br>
><br>
>Sami<br>
><br>
><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Andrew<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> From: <a href="mailto:consulting-bounces@drupal.org">consulting-bounces@drupal.org</a><br>
>[mailto:<a href="mailto:consulting-bounces@drupal.org">consulting-bounces@drupal.org</a>]<br>
>> On Behalf Of David Hazel<br>
>> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 1:17 PM<br>
>> To: <a href="mailto:sami.khan@etopian.com">sami.khan@etopian.com</a>; A list for Drupal consultants and Drupal<br>
>> service/hosting providers<br>
>> Subject: Re: [consulting] American Labour Laws & Future of Labour<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Heinz you've been misinformed regarding this list.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> It's not the "consulting" forum.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> It's the "my country/government/social agenda/values" are better than<br>
>your<br>
>> "country/government/social agenda/values" rant forum.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> But don't feel bad, I think most of us inadvertently signed up to the<br>
>wrong<br>
>> list. Maybe someone should fix the title.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> But that's just my delusional two cents (or whatever the appropriate<br>
>> denomination for your preferred currency is).<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> -Dave<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 9:00 AM, Sami Khan <<a href="mailto:sami@etopian.net">sami@etopian.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> On Sun, 22 Aug 2010 11:30:37 -0400, "Heinz D. Wegener"<br>
>> <<a href="mailto:heinz@simplexcreative.com">heinz@simplexcreative.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>> It's amazing to me how much this "consulting" forum is used to debate<br>
>>> socialism vs. capitalism. Socialism is completely counter-intuitive to<br>
>>> being a consultant. Being a consultant implies that you are interested<br>
>> in<br>
>>> finding jobs that will make you money so that you can support your<br>
>> family.<br>
>>> You are participating in capitalism. This hatred of corporations is<br>
>>> foolishness. Success is not evil. Profit is not evil.<br>
>><br>
>> If the world was as simple as you make it out to be, and all these ideas<br>
>> and thoughts can simply be resolved by consulting a few history books<br>
>and<br>
>> chanting some mantras about how great everything is... then I might<br>
>agree<br>
>> with you. The real world is a complex place, if you look around a bit<br>
>> outside of your own life and maybe your circle of friends -- or if you<br>
>have<br>
>> ever been down on your luck, you would understand.<br>
>><br>
>> The US has a large underclass, approximately 40 million people; these<br>
>> people live below the poverty line. The ideas and the policies are<br>
>largely<br>
>> to blame for these people being put in their position and not being<br>
>> "successful". Profits are not the problem, but when 30% of the economy<br>
>is<br>
>> based on financial products for simply allocating money, something is<br>
>> definitely wrong there.<br>
>><br>
>> If the things continue to go the way that they have been, this<br>
>underclass<br>
>> will grow and there is no guarantee that you or someone you care about<br>
>> won't end up in it. Entrepreneurship is contingent upon the economy, and<br>
>> the economy is contingent upon the middle class for people such as<br>
>> yourself. Supporting policies that increase the size of the middle class<br>
>> and make sure that they have enough money, guarantee that there are<br>
>> opportunities to be had. That's the basics. Beyond that there are<br>
>questions<br>
>> of morality. Is success for some necessary, sure. But to what extent?<br>
>> Unlimited profits? What if that means that the size of the underclass<br>
>> grows, from 40 million to say 80 million or above. Is that a good way to<br>
>> support "success"?<br>
>><br>
>> There are some who simply debate to win... that is not the aim here. The<br>
>> aim is to explore where one stands and see where there are in relation<br>
>to<br>
>> everyone else. In doing that we create possibilities for futures, rather<br>
>> than leaving that task to those who are "successful"... because all that<br>
>> they want is to be more "successful". Which means that they want the<br>
>> underclass size to grow.<br>
>><br>
>> You are simply self-concerned with your life, and because things are<br>
>good<br>
>> for you and those that you care about, you rather ignore that there are<br>
>any<br>
>> problems... That sort of reactive auto-control approach is what put us<br>
>in<br>
>> the economic situation that we are in right now.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>> My father and his family did not emigrate from Germany to America to<br>
>>> experience despair and normalcy. They came with hope, and they had<br>
>> nothing.<br>
>>> They were hard working people with a desire to succeed in one of the<br>
>> best<br>
>>> countries in the world. My father was 6-years-old when they came to<br>
>this<br>
>>> country. He worked his ass off with the goal of becoming successful and<br>
>> was<br>
>>> motivated to do so partially because kids would call him a Nazi in<br>
>> school<br>
>>> just for being from Germany. And guess what? He succeeded. And guess<br>
>> what<br>
>>> else? He is the most generous, giving man I know, and has an amazing<br>
>> heart<br>
>>> for people. There's your evil capitalist.<br>
>><br>
>> The Germans are doing fine at this point. So you would be fine whether<br>
>you<br>
>> were in the US or in Germany; probably better if they are from West<br>
>> Germany. Anecdotes like this about the reaffirmation of American Dream<br>
>tell<br>
>> us nothing about the actual situation on the ground. Certain statistics<br>
>> paint a different picture. The truth lies somewhere in between.<br>
>><br>
>> If you want some anecdotes of people who are not as lucky as you or your<br>
>> family, look here:<br>
>> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/invisiblepeopletv" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/user/invisiblepeopletv</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>> My father-in-law experienced the same type of success after his family<br>
>>> fled from Cuba. Both he and my father both become owners of successful<br>
>>> companies. With socialism comes the death of that hope that most<br>
>> immigrants<br>
>>> had back in the 40's and 50's and still have today.<br>
>><br>
>> I think that hope is dead already and it's because of the financial<br>
>> banksters, who are motivated by capitalism. It may be the case that<br>
>those<br>
>> times are gone for good and we will have to settle for some more social<br>
>> solutions or else face being in the underclass of capitalism.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>> Study your history, and<br>
>>> learn the truth yourself. Entrepreneurs were, and continue to be, some<br>
>> of<br>
>>> the primary contributors to America's success.<br>
>><br>
>> I am happy for your family. I also don't support totalitarian Cuba, or<br>
>any<br>
>> totalitarian socialist economy.<br>
>><br>
>>><br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br>