Andrew,<br><br>I'm not sure why anyone would think this was a list for Drupal Hobbiests. It's called a list for "Drupal consultants" which means people whose job it is to offer Drupal consulting services. Now I would define that very broadly. You may just take a side job here and there -- or even help nonprofits as a volunteer. You may work with Drupal in any capacity, such as a programmer, designer, project manager, webshop owner, or salesperson -- and still be a Drupal consultant. But at a minimum, on a list for Drupal consultants I would think you should be a Drupal consultant. <br>
<br>If you get paid occasionally for Drupal work then it seems to me you qualify as a consultant. <br><br>As for whether or not your b type consultants would be put off my off-topic conversations I think that has more to do with the person than what they do. I work full time with Drupal and am not bothered by off-topic conversations. I think it's interesting to hear my colleagues perspectives and arguments about the evils of capitalism bring back fond memories of my college days.<br>
<br>I think the obvious answer here is there are a lot of people on this list who enjoy it. The ones who don't should start another list or DGP group that better meets their needs. (Though I still think an active moderator who establishes some ground rules would be a good idea)<br>
<br>And I'm still waiting for an answer on who controls this list and makes decisions about closing it down. Anyone?<br><br>Sam<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 10:32 AM, Andrew R. Kelly <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:arkelly@cognisync.com">arkelly@cognisync.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">It dawned on me that this conflict of what is appropriate might be based on two different member profiles – Drupal hobbiests vs Drupal professionals.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span>(a)<span style="font: 7pt "Times New Roman";"> </span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Drupal Hobbiest: I’m doing Drupal stuff as a hobby. I might get paid occasionally but its gravy, I have another profession that feeds my family.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span>(b)<span style="font: 7pt "Times New Roman";"> </span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Drupal Professional: I have built my professional life around selling services based on Drupal. Without Drupal, I can’t pay my bills.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">There are also other flavors of people like those seeking Drupal talent, customers, etc but I’m making an assumption that most of this list membership is either (a) or (b).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Most of the disdain for off-topic threads appears to come from (b). I and my team fall into this category.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Maybe a good checkpoint is to hear from members whether or not you are (a) or (b). That might help in deciding what is appropriate dialog. If the majority is (a) then the rest of us should just put up with random conversations (but the list name is a misnomer). If the majority is (b) then list activity really should mirror an office environment, a conference BOF session, etc., with most conversation on point and an occasional off-topic thread, as you would in a typical professional setting. In this case you could view us as co-workers in a virtual, organically grown organization, all working on our own projects (which I think is a very cool concept).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">So I’ll throw this out and see if it flies: are you (a) a Drupal hobbiest or (b) a Drupal professional?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Andrew</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<div><div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: windowtext;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: windowtext;"> <a href="mailto:consulting-bounces@drupal.org" target="_blank">consulting-bounces@drupal.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:consulting-bounces@drupal.org" target="_blank">consulting-bounces@drupal.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Don<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 24, 2010 6:48 AM<div class="im"><br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:consulting@drupal.org" target="_blank">consulting@drupal.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [consulting] Closing down the consulting mailing list?</div>
</span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal">I know that programmers tend to be control freaks, but this whole "do what I say or we'll close the list" seems way over board. Some of you are letting occasional topics that for some obsessive compulsive reason you can't ignore and just delete ruin a list that works just fine. If I leave the list, it will be from the temper tantrums, not the so called off-topic conversations.</p>
<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br><br>-Don-<br><br>On 8/24/2010 12:45 AM, Adam Mordecai wrote: </div></div><div><div></div><div class="h5"><p class="MsoNormal">There's some internal debate about how we are going to be reforming the list, however, I think there is a general consensus that this is a completely appropriate venue to find consultants to work on your project. Thanks for your patience while we work out the internal debate issues and welcome to the list. :) Feel free to use it to find people to work with. </p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Cheers,</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">-A</p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Aug 23, 2010, at 10:40 PM, Teresa K Pudi wrote:</p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I joined this group recently because I was under the impression that I will be connected to skilled consultants.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span>After several Drupal projects with lots of hard work to select the skills desired this group seemed very atractive to me.</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p></div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span>I was hoping to be able to reach out to this group for help on a project i am currently working on: a website redesign.</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<span>We are in the process of defining requirements and will be looking for developer(s) soon.</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span>Is this the wrong group for me? Is there another group U should be joining?</span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span>Please, advise...</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone</p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;">
<br>On Aug 23, 2010, at 8:26 PM, Therese Kells <<a href="mailto:therese.kells@gmail.com" target="_blank">therese.kells@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;">
Hi Folks,<br><br>I joined this group several years ago. I used to be an employment recruiter back when companies still needed people like me. At the time, I wrote to the group and asked if it was OK to look for Drupal Consultants to support a project my current contract needed help on. (bty I was an inside recruiter working under contract to a start up.) No one, responded! So I sent out an email to the group, presenting what I was given by my client. I received 3 responses and put them all in touch with the hiring manager who could speak intelligently to the project. (speaking intelligently to the project was a plus. I know that is not always the case.) The manager was blown away. He had never gotten such highly qualified folks so quickly. The project unfortunately changed and was postponed. Such is the nature of start ups. Why wouldn't you want someone like me to post project requests to this group? It worked and everyone won. Sure the project changed but I guarantee those consultants are still in this guys Rolodex. What harm? <br>
<br>OK, so why am I still here? I'm self employed. You folks actually talk intelligently to the ins and outs of being self employed. It's hard work and it's lonely. It still beats the hell out of wage slavery. I hardly ever write to you but I read what you have to say and gain from the stuff that is pertinent to my situation. I have great deal of gratitude to you for your tips and insights. <br>
<br>Would you really kick me out because I'm not a Drupal consultant? <br><br>Thanks,<br>Therese <br><br><br></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Sam Cohen <<a href="mailto:sam@samcohen.com" target="_blank">sam@samcohen.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br></p><p class="MsoNormal">Serious question here: Who is it that would make a decision such as closing down this list? Is this one person's decision? A committee? How would it be decided, etc?<br><br>I just posted on DGO a suggestion to elect a moderator. Let's let anyone who would like to see the list go on and want to moderate it post what they think the guidelines should be. Then everyone can vote for a moderator. Seems that would be a way to make this list serve the needs of its members in a fair way.<br>
<br>Sam </p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><br><br></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 6:00 PM, Greg Knaddison <<a href="mailto:Greg@growingventuresolutions.com" target="_blank">Greg@growingventuresolutions.com</a>> wrote:</p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 3:40 PM, Michael Shmilov <<a href="mailto:yamdesigns@gmail.com" target="_blank">yamdesigns@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;">
> I think this list is very important but lately to much off-topics.<br>> and obviously we can't expect someone to moderate/filter the topics.<br>><br>> How about making this list to an rss feed? I find it very useful and we can<br>
> easily browse it.</p></div><p class="MsoNormal">There are multiple rss feeds for every group on <a href="http://groups.drupal.org/" target="_blank">groups.drupal.org</a>.<br><br>If we moved the conversation there, you could use those.</p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><br>Regards,<br>Greg<br><br>--<br>Greg Knaddison | 720-310-5623 | <a href="http://growingventuresolutions.com/" target="_blank">http://growingventuresolutions.com</a></p></div><p class="MsoNormal">
Mastering Drupal | <a href="http://www.masteringdrupal.com/" target="_blank">http://www.masteringdrupal.com</a></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>consulting mailing list<br>
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</div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><br><br clear="all"></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">-- <br><a href="http://samcohen.com/" target="_blank">http://samcohen.com</a> <br>
</span><br>_______________________________________________<br>consulting mailing list<br><a href="mailto:consulting@drupal.org" target="_blank">consulting@drupal.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting" target="_blank">http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting</a></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div><p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>consulting mailing list<br><a href="mailto:consulting@drupal.org" target="_blank">consulting@drupal.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting" target="_blank">http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting</a></p></div></blockquote></div><p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
consulting mailing list<br><a href="mailto:consulting@drupal.org" target="_blank">consulting@drupal.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting" target="_blank">http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting</a></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Adam Mordecai</span></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Partner - Advomatic, LLC</span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Drupal Development, Managed Hosting & Maintenance<br>---------<br>AIM: AdamMordecai<br>Office: 212.812.4180 x101<br>Cell: 646.625.9010<br>Fax: 646.472.7993<br>
----------<br>Advomatic<br>243 5th Ave, Suite 460<br>New York, NY 10016<br><a href="http://www.advomatic.com" target="_blank">http://www.advomatic.com</a></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal">
</p></div><pre> </pre><pre> </pre><pre>_______________________________________________</pre><pre>consulting mailing list</pre><pre><a href="mailto:consulting@drupal.org" target="_blank">consulting@drupal.org</a></pre><pre>
<a href="http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting" target="_blank">http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting</a></pre><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
consulting mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:consulting@drupal.org">consulting@drupal.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting" target="_blank">http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><a href="http://samcohen.com">http://samcohen.com</a> <br>
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