<div>When we work with an outside designer we specifically ask them to give us their designs as layered PSDs or Fireworks docs. What's the point of handing us an HTML/CSS version when we're just going to completely redo it anyway?</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div>--<br>Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg<br>Partner | Business Lead<br><a href="http://zivtech.com" target="_blank">Zivtech, LLC</a><br><a href="mailto:alex@zivtech.com" target="_blank">alex@zivtech.com</a><br>
office: (215) 922-2692<br>cell: (215) 866-8956<div>twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/alexu_a" target="_blank">AlexU_A</a></div><br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Larry Garfield <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:larry@garfieldtech.com">larry@garfieldtech.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
I'll be honest, I've worked with Drupal for over 5 years now and I've never<br>
figured out why anyone bothers with hi-fi HTML mockups anymore. I know there<br>
are places that do, but the actual HTML that Drupal spits out is so incredibly<br>
different than what you'd get if you're "designing" your HTML that I don't see<br>
what value it adds. And the effort involved to change and strip down the HTML<br>
to be just what you want is non-small, and removes a ton of Drupal's<br>
flexibility. (The design is more likely to break if you reconfigure a node<br>
type or tweak a View, for instance.)<br>
<br>
I know there are people that swear by it, and I used to do a lot more HTML<br>
myself, but my company hasn't done hi-fi HTML mockups in years and it's been a<br>
huge time saver for us. Let Drupal give us the HTML it wants, and then CSS it<br>
into whatever we need, adjusting HTML only where necessary.<br>
<br>
--Larry Garfield<br>
<div class="im"><br>
On Monday, November 01, 2010 12:36:56 pm Josh wrote:<br>
> As a classically trained print graphic designer who has been working with<br>
> HTML and CSS since 2001, I can tell you that the gap does exist. With the<br>
> advent of HTML 5, the canvas object, and a huge amount of widely available<br>
> fonts, the gap is closing fast.<br>
><br>
> Good news: Any great web designer can work with *most* Content Management<br>
> Systems. Nearly all of my sites go through a static page design phase were<br>
> we take the approved PSD and turn it into an HTML mockup with CSS files and<br>
> Javascript. This is rigorously tested on all major browsers. This static<br>
> design can be created by anyone with a flare for design and CSS.<br>
><br>
> The next step can be tricky, turning static designs into functional<br>
> websites (not just functional themes) takes a pretty savvy Drupal website<br>
> builder. For example, making a static jQuery rotator on a homepage is<br>
> pretty easy, but in Drupal you need to think through the Content Types,<br>
> the View, and ultimately, how the block gets created and if there are any<br>
> arguments that need to be considered. And once this homepage rotator is<br>
> built, tweaking the CSS to deal with the html that is output. (Though, the<br>
> Semantic<br>
</div>> Views<<a href="http://drupal.org/project/semanticviews" target="_blank">http://drupal.org/project/semanticviews</a>>module can help with<br>
<div class="im">> this tremendously).<br>
><br>
> Shop around the big Drupal shops (any company that regularly posts to<br>
> the Drupal<br>
</div>> Planet <<a href="http://drupal.org/planet" target="_blank">http://drupal.org/planet</a>>) and you'll find someone who will give<br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5">> you the time of day and a decent estimate. If you are budget conscience or<br>
> simply want a custom theme, try the good folks at TopNotchThemes...<br>
><br>
> <a href="http://www.topnotchthemes.com/form/custom-drupal-design-theming" target="_blank">http://www.topnotchthemes.com/form/custom-drupal-design-theming</a><br>
><br>
> <<a href="http://www.topnotchthemes.com/form/custom-drupal-design-theming" target="_blank">http://www.topnotchthemes.com/form/custom-drupal-design-theming</a>>Josh<br>
><br>
> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 12:37 PM, <a href="mailto:larry@garfieldtech.com">larry@garfieldtech.com</a> <<br>
><br>
> <a href="mailto:larry@garfieldtech.com">larry@garfieldtech.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> > At the risk of pissing off designers on this list, I'd look for someone<br>
> > whose resume doesn't include much print work. Print design and web<br>
> > design are very different animals. It's *really* hard to be good in<br>
> > both, but a lot of print designers think that because they are<br>
> > (legitimately) good print designers it makes them good web designers.<br>
> > That's no more true than me being a good PHP developer means that I<br>
> > could be a first-rate Erlang or ML programmer my first time out. I've<br>
> > known some really good print designers and really good web designers,<br>
> > but the overlap I've seen between the two is small.<br>
> ><br>
> > Also, look for someone that bills themselves as an interaction designer<br>
> > rather than graphic artist. They're more likely to "get" the web if<br>
> > they think in terms of interaction and workflow rather than "art".<br>
> ><br>
> > *Dons flame retardant suit before the print artists find him.*<br>
> ><br>
> > --Larry Garfield<br>
> ><br>
> > On 11/1/10 10:46 AM, Don wrote:<br>
> > > Too funny. Yes, I get designers that want to change the layout of each<br>
> ><br>
> > page.<br>
> ><br>
> > > I'm a good themer, it's bringing together an ensemble of items to make<br>
> > > a theme that I'm oblivious to.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > -Don-<br>
> > ><br>
> > > On 11/1/2010 11:22 AM, Matt Chapman wrote:<br>
> > >> Find people who have contributed themes that don't suck. Also, broaden<br>
> > >> your search outside the Drupal community. From the design side, CMS is<br>
> > >> CMS. Look at actual sites, not just portfolio screenshots. Hire<br>
> > >> someone who has their own blog that they designed, so you know they<br>
> > >> actually use a CMS regularly.<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> But practically, I face the same challenge. It seems tome that a lot<br>
> > >> of designers still think it's 1995 in terms of user / administrator<br>
> > >> experience, as if the site is only going to change a few timers a<br>
> > >> year.<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> I recently had to answer a PM at a design agency with "If you want it<br>
> > >> to look /exactly/ like the mock-up, then you can only use Lorem Ipsum<br>
> > >> text..." He got it, but I'm not sure the designer ever did... The text<br>
> > >> in question was from a social network feed that updated hourly.<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> All the Best,<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> Matt<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 7:59 AM, Don<<a href="mailto:donald@fane.com">donald@fane.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> > >>> I have a friend looking for a Drupal aware graphics designer. Finding<br>
> > >>> someone that's aware of how a CMS works, is a good designer and is<br>
> > >>> reliable is something that's always escaped me. Branding and impact<br>
> > >>> as well as user interfacing are important as well.<br>
> > >>> Any recommendations? Feel free to email me directly.<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> -Don-<br>
> > >>> <a href="mailto:donald@fane.com">donald@fane.com</a><br>
> > >>><br>
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> > >><br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br>