Why not focus on improving rather than bickering? With what's been said, and if there's no chance of starvation since
#drupal-support does actually have a good number of friendly drupal
support people, changing #drupal-support to #drupal is the way to go.<br>
<br>
+ves :<br>
1. the devs who are bothered by newb's could lurk in -dev without getting bothered, too often, that is ;)<br>
2. support seeking people will happen to fall in drupal heaven when they guess #drupal's the place to go for support, good first impression<br>
3. this will be confirming to channel standards.<br>
<br>
-ves :<br>
Are there any?<br><br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 8/1/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Angela Byron</b> <<a href="mailto:drupal-devel@webchick.net">drupal-devel@webchick.net</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>On 31-Jul-07, at 8:19 PM, Derek Wright wrote:<br><br>><br>> On Jul 31, 2007, at 4:54 PM, Angela Byron wrote:<br>><br>>> Since the people who founded #drupal-dev are the ones who rocked<br>>> the boat, I believe it is their responsibility to steer us to our
<br>>> final destination. So what's it going to be? Are you guys going to<br>>> hang out in #drupal and answer support questions all day? Or are<br>>> you going to come back to the fold?<br>><br>> Oh come on. You've seen the replies we just got when we tried to
<br>> be logical and reasonable about it. I thought I did a good job of<br>> providing evidence for my position. I'm not interested in trying<br>> to have a debate in this climate, where the only replies in favor
<br>> of the old status quo are either:<br>><br>> "I won't give up the channel to people too stupid to use IRC"<br>><br>> or<br>><br>> "Since you rocked the boat, it's now your responsibility to either
<br>> provide free support all day or admit you were wrong for wanting to<br>> change anything".<br>><br>><br>> And, frankly, how dare you accuse Earl and myself (for example) for<br>> not providing enough support? Like we haven't done our share to
<br>> help the Drupal project, writing docs, answering questions (in and<br>> out of IRC), improving the support tools on d.o, training the next<br>> layer of developers and contributors, etc, etc. I'm not even
<br>> talking about the code we write. Please.<br><br>Yes, that was very poorly worded, and you have my full apologies. It<br>was never my intention to disparage the efforts that people like you<br>and Earl are putting into the Drupal community. It also was not my
<br>intention to start a fight or an argument -- I'm just very concerned<br>with the impact this is having / will have on the community as a whole.<br><br>My intention, rather, was to drive home the fact that when smart,
<br>awesome people leave #drupal, it hurts the project as a whole,<br>because #drupal is where the vast majority of users are going to go.<br>Most users don't consider themselves "developer" material, and will
<br>never catch all of the great discussions going on in the #drupal-dev<br>channel because they'll assume themselves too stupid to fit in. And<br>as a result, Drupal misses out on new contributors who might be<br>passively idling in #drupal, see people talking about some issue or
<br>another, and get sucked in. Couple this with a complete lack of<br>people handling the 'support?' questions, and IMO the project as a<br>whole is worse off.<br><br>But yes, I do believe that there is more to creating change than
<br>simply starting a new channel and going elsewhere. The only way<br>#drupal will become a useful place for new users is if people start<br>hanging out there and making it so. Abandoning it, as many have done,<br>has only made things remarkably worse.
<br><br>-Angie<br><br></blockquote></div><br>