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I like this ideas as well! That would be about 4380 shifts in a
year. Shouldn't be hard to find that many people to help out, who
could commit to 1 or 2 shifts a year. What we would need to
encourage that would be any easy-to-use site for sign-up and badges
or other rewards as incentive...<br>
<br>
On 02/01/2011 01:16 PM, Randy Fay wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:AANLkTik9G2h5J+OPWcYDqqAKwfM62oJ66YjtL-tDy4Yb@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">One key thing that I'm hearing in this discussion is
that a support team needs to spin off from the traditional "docs"
team. Support really is a different thing, and it should be
handled with a more deliberate organizational approach than we've
taken before.<br>
<br>
I like your idea, Shai, although it seems hard to keep running.
But I like it.<br>
<br>
-Randy<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 10:26 AM, Shai
Gluskin <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:shai@content2zero.com">shai@content2zero.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>What I would like to see a support team do is organize
people to sign-up for specific hours to "staff" the support
channels, all of them (d.o. <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:support@drupal.org" target="_blank">support@drupal.org</a>,
g.d.o, maybe even stack overflow), answering people's
questions wherever they show up. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>People would volunteer to sign up for two-hour shifts.
That's only 84 shifts a week to cover 24/7. I'm sure during
busy hours we could get multiple people to sign up for
shifts. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What is so critical in support is the timelines of the
response. And because the shifts are time-bound, I'll bet we
could recruit a lot of people to sign-up who don't ever
visit the forums at d.o.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I believe this kind of effort would make Drupal seem much
more welcoming than it is currently perceived by people just
starting Drupal.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Shai</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>maybe even stack overflow as well)<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 12:07 PM,
Victor Kane <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:victorkane@gmail.com" target="_blank">victorkane@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 1:38 PM, <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:larry@garfieldtech.com"
target="_blank">larry@garfieldtech.com</a> <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:larry@garfieldtech.com"
target="_blank">larry@garfieldtech.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt
0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204,
204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">Uh, Victor, you are
aware that Wikipedia has a "team" of editors who
correct, prune, and curate content far more
actively than anyone on Drupal.org, right?<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>Well, that is a relatively recent development,
isn't it? Their initial success at least was due to
crowdsourcing, wasn't it? Can you prove they are
doing better as a result?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<font color="#888888">
<div>Victor</div>
</font>
<div>
<div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt
0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204,
204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
And you are also aware that Drupal core has
appointed "leads" who are extremely picky about
what they allow in?<br>
<br>
And that PHP itself has about 1000 committers
who don't have to talk to each other before
committing, and the result is an utter
trainwreck of inconsistency and people
committing things in the middle of the night
just to avoid the fact that everyone else
already said no to an idea? (True story.)<br>
<br>
Just making sure about that...<br>
<br>
--Larry Garfield
<div><br>
<br>
On 2/1/11 6:37 AM, Victor Kane wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:
0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid
rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>
I won't be able to go to DrupalCon this
year, so I'll give my feedback here.<br>
<br>
One thing that's clear from the success of
many open documentation sites<br>
(wikipedia, stack overflow) is that they
avoid top down governance, they<br>
let the meritocracy form on the basis of
what actually happens.<br>
<br>
I firmly believe that the existence of
"document leads" and other forms<br>
of control have done more harm than good,
despite heroic efforts from<br>
these individuals, since all that has
happened over the last few years<br>
is a constant moving around of a
hierarchical structure.<br>
<br>
Why wouldn't a freer, wiki like approach
work?<br>
<br>
Victor Kane<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://awebfactory.com.ar"
target="_blank">http://awebfactory.com.ar</a><br>
<br>
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 8:37 PM, Randy Fay
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:randy@randyfay.com"
target="_blank">randy@randyfay.com</a><br>
</div>
<div>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:randy@randyfay.com"
target="_blank">randy@randyfay.com</a>>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
I don't think we can delegate any part of
Drupal to something we<br>
don't control; I think that's just a
non-starter.<br>
<br>
So for me, the issue is what we can learn
from StackOverflow and<br>
friends - they do great stuff and end up
with great content. And<br>
yes, I think we should build something on
that.<br>
<br>
Who is signing up to build it? I think
it's an easy sell.<br>
<br>
-Randy<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Dan
Horning<br>
</div>
<div>
<div> <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dan.horning@planetnoc.com"
target="_blank">dan.horning@planetnoc.com</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dan.horning@planetnoc.com"
target="_blank">dan.horning@planetnoc.com</a>>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
i have to ask ... what would we
actually gain by doing this -<br>
cleanup the various methods for
finding info about a given<br>
module or theme or bug a little and
we far surpass this<br>
suggested tool<br>
<br>
it seems that stackoverflow is
driven very highly on userpoints<br>
to control access - which while a
good thing - doesn't really<br>
fit the development model we have
here. there are existing<br>
processes that would have to change
to fit the suggested model.<br>
I for one am more for peer reviews
and leadership staff<br>
assigning access than a points
system that someone could rack up<br>
points and just get access ...
what's that really do for the<br>
community - seems that would be
great if we were just a tech<br>
help forum - awarding points for
the users that help and giving<br>
them more access - but what's that
do for drupal and it's<br>
community? (i know there is a
potential for this to help ...)<br>
<br>
another area of issue to me is -
another login ? or would it use<br>
SSO?<br>
do the drupal leadership users and
dries have admin level<br>
control...?<br>
<br>
mostly here i just don't get what
adding yet another resource<br>
(like has been said before) would
do to help the lead devs,<br>
module + theme devs and just
supporting drupal. if i had say -=-<br>
i'd vote against this idea<br>
<br>
--<br>
Dan Horning<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
> From: "Victor Kane" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:victorkane@gmail.com"
target="_blank">victorkane@gmail.com</a><br>
</div>
</div>
<div> <mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:victorkane@gmail.com"
target="_blank">victorkane@gmail.com</a>>><br>
> To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:development@drupal.org"
target="_blank">development@drupal.org</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:development@drupal.org"
target="_blank">development@drupal.org</a>><br>
> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011
6:01:55 PM<br>
> Subject: Re: [development]
Drupal Answers: A<br>
Stackoverflow/StackExchange site
proposal<br>
> I guess this is a good place to
start:<br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://area51.stackexchange.com/faq"
target="_blank">http://area51.stackexchange.com/faq</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 8:00
PM, Victor Kane <<br>
</div>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:victorkane@gmail.com"
target="_blank">victorkane@gmail.com</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:victorkane@gmail.com"
target="_blank">victorkane@gmail.com</a>>
>
<div><br>
> wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 6:57
PM, Josh Koenig <<br>
</div>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:josh@getpantheon.com"
target="_blank">josh@getpantheon.com</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:josh@getpantheon.com"
target="_blank">josh@getpantheon.com</a>>
>
<div><br>
> wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Stew,<br>
><br>
><br>
> Thanks for starting this
thread. This is important stuff:<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/2978/drupal-answers"
target="_blank">http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/2978/drupal-answers</a><br>
><br>
> I want to put my support behind
this proposal and explain my<br>
thinking<br>
> in doing so.<br>
><br>
><br>
> The Drupal community is already
growing faster than Drupal's<br>
> infrastructure can easily
support. With the release of D7 and<br>
all the<br>
> other associated projects
getting off the ground, <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://drupal.org" target="_blank">drupal.org</a><br>
</div>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://drupal.org" target="_blank">http://drupal.org</a>>
is
<div>
<div><br>
> increasingly often a
bottleneck or blocker. We have wonderful<br>
hosts<br>
> from OSUOSL, but the human
resources needed to develop,<br>
maintain and<br>
> manage our own infrastructure
(which is a 24x7x365 job) are<br>
limited.<br>
><br>
><br>
> We have to pick our battles.
I much would rather see energy,<br>
effort,<br>
> attention and money poured
into continuing to improve our git and<br>
> module infrastructure — which
is much more deeply intrinsic<br>
to the<br>
> health and future of the
project — and accept that even though we<br>
> *can* build our own
StackOverflow (@eaton proved this<br>
already) that<br>
> doesn't necessarily mean it's
the best use of limited<br>
resources, or<br>
> the best thing for the
project.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Drupal can
theoretically/technically solve a lot of
its own<br>
problems,<br>
> but I think we often suffer
from a "not built here" prejudice<br>
as a<br>
> result. In the realm of
getting good quality answers to Drupal<br>
> questions out to the most
people possible, I can't see how a<br>
> StackExchange site would do
anything but help. I would love<br>
to see the<br>
> community embrace something
really cool and useful from the wider<br>
> Internet as a way to promote
the project.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> You make a convincing
argument Josh; my own gut feeling has
been,<br>
> reading this thread, "how can
we delegate something so<br>
important to<br>
> the Drupal Community as its
own documentation to another<br>
party who may<br>
> or may not exist in the
near/medium/long term".<br>
><br>
><br>
> Can someone inform somewhat
on who these guys are? And why<br>
there and<br>
> not someplace else?<br>
><br>
><br>
> Victor<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Finally, I should say that I
*do not* think a StackExchange<br>
answers<br>
> site replaces anything. It's
not an issue queue, and it's not a<br>
> replacement for the dialogue
that exist in the forums. I<br>
would say<br>
> it's a new resource,
something that can help the 10s of 1000s
of<br>
> people who will be trying to
wrap their mind around Drupal in the<br>
> coming year.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Cheers<br>
> -josh<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Randy Fay<br>
Drupal Module and Site Development<br>
</div>
</div>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:randy@randyfay.com"
target="_blank">randy@randyfay.com</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:randy@randyfay.com"
target="_blank">randy@randyfay.com</a>><br>
+1 970.462.7450<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
Randy Fay<br>
Drupal Module and Site Development<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:randy@randyfay.com">randy@randyfay.com</a><br>
+1 970.462.7450<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Aaron Winborn
Advomatic, LLC
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://advomatic.com/">http://advomatic.com/</a>
Drupal Multimedia available in September!
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.packtpub.com/create-multimedia-website-with-drupal/book">http://www.packtpub.com/create-multimedia-website-with-drupal/book</a>
My blog:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://aaronwinborn.com/">http://aaronwinborn.com/</a></pre>
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