My problem is that while I enjoy providing support and in a few areas consider it my responsibility, I don't like to have to handle similar questions multiple times. And the mailing list approach to support does not promote context or alternate support vehicles. In many ways this list is Twitter's "Dear #lazyweb". <br>
<br>I don't mind. I just want to be able to offer support in a more efficient way,and in a way that encourages people offering support to have good resources before they ask.<br><br>This list has long been, as Angie notes, a dev support list. That's not so bad. It's just that we could improve the quality by finding better, more contextual ways to offer support.<br>
<br>Oh well :-)<br><br>-Randy<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 8:58 PM, Angela Byron <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:drupal-devel@webchick.net">drupal-devel@webchick.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><br><div><div class="im"><div>On 2011-03-17, at 7:21 PM, Walt Daniels wrote:</div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">>And perhaps we could change the name of this mailing list to devel-support.<div>That still sounds like the place for noobs to get support .</div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>Well, that's essentially what this list has become, and why most of the people who used to frequent the list back in 2005-2007 no longer do.</div>
<div><br></div><div>It used to be that this list was for high-level strategical discussions around core/contrib/d.o development, active brainstorming on big problem solving, important announcements that affected CVS (now Git) account holders, and those sort of things. What we currently (badly) use "meta" issues and a variety of fragmented groups on g.d.o for, was what this development list was for at one time. Support questions were directed to the forums or to IRC.</div>
<div><br></div><div>However, over time, the volume of support requests coming into this list for "Is there a module that does what I want?" and "How come my code is broken?" have far out-stripped most of the veterans' ability to ask, repeatedly, for them to be taken off-list. And so most of them have by now vacated the premises in favour of lower-traffic IRC channels like #drupal-contribute or to <a href="http://groups.drupal.org" target="_blank">groups.drupal.org</a> silos. These mediums have now mostly taken over the core function the mailing list used to, but in an ad-hoc, "you only know about it if you happened to be there or if some kind soul wrote a summary in the issue queue about it" fashion. This "support creep" has been happening in lots of other places too over the past couple of years: #drupal, issue queues, etc. and it all only exacerbates the problem of the more dedicated and hard working individuals withdrawing away from the larger community in an attempt to maintain some sort of sanity. All of which is *extremely* detrimental to our community, including the people who need support. </div>
<div><br></div><div>I believe Randy's proposal is an attempt to rectify this situation, and get this mailing list back to its roots, by providing an alternate mechanism for both support and important announcements. I don't agree that shuffling contributors off of <a href="http://Drupal.org" target="_blank">Drupal.org</a> is the answer (I have a long-winded, ranty blog post about this I need to write up sometime...), but I also frankly don't believe that this list will ever overcome the stigma/reputation that's grown up around it among the core group of contributors, even if we were all to do a concerted effort to get the content back under quality control. It's easier to just give up and call a spade a spade (or, in this case, a development support list a development support list). :(</div>
<div><br></div><div>-Angie</div><div><div></div><div class="h5"><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 10:07 PM, Randy Fay <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:randy@randyfay.com" target="_blank">randy@randyfay.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">OK, I have another proposal:<br><br>Let's move all non-support (announcements to developers primarily, or policy discussion, that sort of thing) off this mailing list and onto a Developers group on <a href="http://Groups.drupal.org/" target="_blank">Groups.drupal.org</a>, where only announcement-type material is posted. That way those who want to use this as a support list can do so, and those who want to use StackExchange and other venues can do so, but everybody knows where non-support things of interest to developers are announced.<br>
<br>And perhaps we could change the name of this mailing list to devel-support.<br><font color="#888888"><br>-Randy</font><div><div></div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 7:32 PM, nan wich <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nan_wich@bellsouth.net" target="_blank">nan_wich@bellsouth.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div></div>
<div>-1 for me. I have yet to find an actual discussion on SE.<br> </div><p><font color="#ff007f" size="4" face="bookman old style, new york, times, serif"><i><b>Nancy</b></i></font></p><div> <br></div><p><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. -- Dr. Martin L. King, Jr.</font></p>
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<b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> Randy Fay <<a href="mailto:randy@randyfay.com" target="_blank">randy@randyfay.com</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> development <<a href="mailto:development@drupal.org" target="_blank">development@drupal.org</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Thu, March 17, 2011 1:24:34 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> [development] Proposal: Move all dev support off this list to new StackExchange site<br>
</font><div><div></div><div><br>The new <a href="http://drupal.stackexchange.com/" target="_blank">http://drupal.stackexchange.com</a> is now live, and several outstanding Drupal contributors are monitoring and contributing to it.<br>
<br>It seems like we'd get better long-term use of people's time if we did development support over there, where it's searchable, and where repeat questions can be answered by an internet search instead of everybody reading and answering the same thing over and over.<br>
<br>And yes, I'm in favor of providing this capability on <a href="http://drupal.org/" target="_blank">Drupal.org</a>, as per
<a href="http://drupal.org/node/1047632" target="_blank">http://drupal.org/node/1047632</a>, but for now, what about taking dev support off this list since there's such a good alternative?<br><br>-Randy<br clear="all">
<br>-- <br>Randy Fay<br>Drupal Module and Site Development<br><a href="mailto:randy@randyfay.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">randy@randyfay.com</a><br>+1 <a href="tel:970.462.7450" target="_blank"></a><a href="tel:970.462.7450" target="_blank"></a><a href="tel:970.462.7450" target="_blank">970.462.7450</a><br>
<br></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Randy Fay<br>Drupal Module and Site Development<br><a href="mailto:randy@randyfay.com" target="_blank">randy@randyfay.com</a><br>+1 <a href="tel:970.462.7450" target="_blank"></a><a href="tel:970.462.7450" target="_blank">970.462.7450</a><br>
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</blockquote></div></div></div><br></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Randy Fay<br>Drupal Module and Site Development<br><a href="mailto:randy@randyfay.com">randy@randyfay.com</a><br>+1 970.462.7450<br>
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