<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><BR><DIV><DIV>On 9-Nov-05, at 6:49 PM, Kieran Lal wrote:</DIV><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV><DIV></DIV><DIV>I am going to ask Trae McCombs to jump in here and write a page of how to manage your themes. He inherited the CivicSpace theme from Chris who did a lot very innovative things first with Democratica and then the CivicSpace themes.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Full-time themers like Trae have developed a suite of techniques for theming that I believe will go a long way to helping people debug their custom themes. These include tools that are built into Firefox to identify CSS classes, validating xhtml of contributed modules, and even paid services like browser cam that can help with identifying cross browser compatibilities.</DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>Full time themers I know use that whatever they are designer for, not just Drupal. i.e. these are web design issues, not Drupal.<BR><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV><DIV>The CS theme also provides a range of Styles: <A href="http://cvs.drupal.org/viewcvs/drupal/contributions/themes/civicspace/styles/">http://cvs.drupal.org/viewcvs/drupal/contributions/themes/civicspace/styles/</A> so people don't have to be CSS masters.</DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Err. They do to change it.</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV><DIV>I think doing as much of the theme customization on a powerful base is what people really want. Once you have a layout and style you just need a simple custom.css class to override colors and graphics. </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>There is such a thing as a too powerful base. I myself know CSS, and I am literally too afraid to touch any CSS in any of the CivicSpace stuff, because it is too complex and inter-related (i.e. I can't grasp it all in my head). Of course, if I used a CivicSpace all the time, I would get to know it...but I would then be lost on other theme bases.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I (personal preference) prefer "leaner" themes that have no work arounds or cross browser hacks -- I'll add those myself as an experienced CSS designer (I'm not) or stay away from them and stick with simpler changes.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>(and of course, by your own admission, we are in an "I think" phase....I have several designer consultants who do advanced CSS on basic themes, not powerful browser hack ones)</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV><DIV>Of course the most advanced theme can not help with bad xhtml from contributed modules. The forms API should be able to fix a lot of this.</DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Not part of discussion. File bugs.</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV><DIV>We should have a page on managing theme inconsistencies up shortly. Hopefully, it will become a collaborative effort.</DIV></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Sure. I guess I get to edit it back down with pointers on where to learn CSS :P</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Just wanting to make sure we do not veer into the territory of CSS tutorials...</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>--<BR><DIV> <DIV>Boris Mann</DIV><DIV>Vancouver 778-896-2747 San Francisco 415-367-3595</DIV><DIV>SKYPE borismann</DIV><DIV><A href="http://www.bryght.com">http://www.bryght.com</A></DIV> </DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>