[support] Do you *really* have to be a programmer - was Re:Newbie question on concept

[Larry Garfield]

At least in Drupal 5, I have to disagree.  Most of the sites I've done recently, professionally, are 95% existing modules.  Once you learn how to really leverage CCK, Views, and other "first tier" modules, you can usually get 80% of what you want.  Another 10% you can get from picking the right additional modules to install and knowing how to configure them.

The last 10%, though, is making the site look like its "yours" rather than Drupal.  That's the hard part, and that part is where most of the code we've written goes.  That's because:

1) Theming requires complex logic.
2) Complex logic requires a language capable of expressing it.
3) PHP is a language capable of expressing complex logic, and it's the one Drupal uses.

A lot of that is boilerplate code that you can copy and paste and sometimes modify, and in fact the theme system is built for that.  But you need to have some idea of how PHP works.  You don't need to be a first-rate programmer, but to do anything that doesn't look canned (either one of the default Drupal themes or someone else's general purpose Drupal theme) you do need to be able to tweak some code here and there at the theme layer.

And I challenge any other CMS to offer infinite flexibility layout without involving PHP. :-)  

At least these days, though, the thinking I'm seeing is "it costs you 5 minutes to create a node type with CCK and add some fields to it".  Throw Views at it, and you have any listing of nodes you want, anywhere you want.  You just need to know how to configure it, which is confusing until you realize what it's doing, then it's easy. :-)

Making the node look like something other than the default?  Then you need to understand how the theme layer works and know at least enough PHP that you don't panic as soon as you see a dollar sign.  

--Larry Garfield

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 16:53:12 +0200, Bèr Kessels <ber at webschuur.com> wrote:
> Op woensdag 25 april 2007, schreef Victor Kane:
>> > The programming parts would have to do with customizing beyond what is
>> > already available.  If you don't want the default available then you
>> > need to be able to program around it or ask someone else to do it.
> 
> In any case, Drupal is not as configuration-options rich as e.g. Joomla!
> is. 
> Drupal assumes you
> a) change stuff by loading/unloading modules
> b) use some basic PHP skills, often also a requirement for a theme.
> c) use advanced modules (cck, views, flexinode, actions, workflows) which
> come 
> with loats of configuration to do that without programming. 
> 
> However, the basic Drupal though has been (and may still be) that 'it
> costs 
> you 15 minutes to build a new node type module'. Its like that: no need to
> 
> get all the overhead and fuss of CCK, views, and so forth when all you
> need 
> is a new DB table, and 400 lines of PHP to achieve the same. 
> 
> You may be able to get really far without a line of PHP.
> But then you either need a simple site (re: Drupal its not as 
> configuration-rich as other CMSes),
> or lots of skills to learn about the complex concepts of CCK, views,
> actions, 
> workflows and so forth. (re: steep learnnig curve)
> 
> Bèr
>