Larry, I think you misunderstand the point. The point is not whether Drupal 7 is ready for hot shot Drupal agencies to use for high-end clients using a team of rocket scientists.<div><br></div><div>Or whether Drupal 7 was hurried out the door to satisfy the business models of some companies.<br>
<div><br></div><div>The point is whether regular people, site builders with no special core experience, would be able to find Drupal 7 usable, just as when WordPress comes out and is generally usable as advertised.</div>
<div>
<br></div><div>Nick isn't even saying it's the only valid approach, he's saying that's the one he is following; and I certainly agree with him.</div><div><br></div><div>Victor Kane</div><div><a href="http://awebfactory.com.ar">http://awebfactory.com.ar</a><br>
<div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 5:58 PM, <a href="mailto:larry@garfieldtech.com">larry@garfieldtech.com</a> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:larry@garfieldtech.com">larry@garfieldtech.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Again, I have to disagree. A lot of bugs were downgraded from critical<br>
because critical was being abused for "really bad" rather than "Drupal<br>
doesn't work at all if this isn't fixed", which is what it is supposed<br>
to be for.<br>
<br>
Eg, an issue that affects installation of the database under certain<br>
configurations of Mac OS X due to a misconfiguration bug in OS X is<br>
certainly bad, and prevents people in those configurations from<br>
installing Drupal without fixing the configuration bug first. However,<br>
it doesn't mean that Drupal breaks in all or even most circumstances.<br>
(That's an actual bug that was downgraded from critical at one point.)<br>
<br>
Consider too that Drupal 6 as of right now has over 350 critical issues<br>
filed against it:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://drupal.org/project/issues/drupal?priorities=1&version=6.x" target="_blank">http://drupal.org/project/issues/drupal?priorities=1&version=6.x</a><br>
<br>
So I guess Drupal 6 isn't ready for production either. ;-)<br>
<br>
I'm not saying that Drupal 7 is bug-free. It's not. It is, however,<br>
the most "ready" .0 release of Drupal, both for core and contrib, in<br>
many many years. People have been launching sites on it large and small<br>
for six months, including the US government.<br>
<br>
--Larry Garfield<br>
<div class="im"><br>
On 2/21/11 2:48 PM, Nick Young wrote:<br>
> The menu bug i mentioned is filed, and was actually listed as critical<br>
> prior to the D7 launch. Due to the nature of it, there were a few<br>
> concurrent bugs that were filed with this same symptom...it just took a<br>
> while for the root cause to be identified. <a href="http://drupal.org/node/942782" target="_blank">http://drupal.org/node/942782</a><br>
><br>
> My biggest concern about D7 though, is that in the lead-up to the<br>
> January launch, critical bugs were downgraded, seemingly to meet the<br>
> deadline. Instead of keeping to the "we'll release D7 when all critical<br>
> bugs are fixed," it became "we'll reclassify critical bugs as major,<br>
> which means we can now release D7." This was never more evident to me<br>
> than the comment on that bug thread above which said "I can see this is<br>
> nasty if you run into it, but I don't see how it is critical."<br>
><br>
> I don't want to hijack this thread though, as there is a good discussion<br>
> to be had about what sites or projects are suited to D7's current state.<br>
> I just think that this particular bug is representative of the larger<br>
> issue surrounding how "ready" Drupal 7 is for production sites (ie: it's<br>
> not).<br>
><br>
> --Nick<br>
><br>
> ...........................................................<br>
> *Nick Young*<br>
> Outreach, Communications & Consulting<br>
> Office of Information Technology<br>
> North Carolina State University<br>
> Box 7109, Raleigh 27695<br>
</div><div class="im">> Ph. 919.513.2716 | E-Mail: <a href="mailto:nick_young@ncsu.edu">nick_young@ncsu.edu</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:nick_young@ncsu.edu">nick_young@ncsu.edu</a>><br>
> Web: <a href="http://oitdesign.ncsu.edu" target="_blank">oitdesign.ncsu.edu</a> <<a href="http://oitdesign.ncsu.edu/" target="_blank">http://oitdesign.ncsu.edu/</a>><br>
> ...........................................................<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
</div><div class="im">> On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 3:30 PM, <a href="mailto:larry@garfieldtech.com">larry@garfieldtech.com</a><br>
</div>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:larry@garfieldtech.com">larry@garfieldtech.com</a>> <<a href="mailto:larry@garfieldtech.com">larry@garfieldtech.com</a><br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5">> <mailto:<a href="mailto:larry@garfieldtech.com">larry@garfieldtech.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> The menu system was broken in the extreme in Drupal 6, too, just in<br>
> different ways. :-) You should see the number of menu system hack<br>
> modules that were still being developed even late in Drupal 6's<br>
> lifecycle.<br>
><br>
> Is there an open issue for the bug you mention? If not, have you filed<br>
> one? Bugs don't fix themselves. We need everyone's help to get a<br>
> system as complex as Drupal really really polished.<br>
><br>
> --Larry Garfield<br>
><br>
> On 2/21/11 2:18 PM, Nick Young wrote:<br>
> > one of the big things that has frustrated me with Drupal 7, is<br>
> that the<br>
> > custom menu system is broken.<br>
> ><br>
> > By this, I mean that if you build/use a custom menu (anything<br>
> other than<br>
> > the pre-defined menus of Primary/Secondary etc), then menus will not<br>
> > work as expected. The problem is that Drupal 7 does not assign the<br>
> > correct/necessary "active-trail" attribute to custom menu items, and<br>
> > therefore child items will not expand as you click through a menu.<br>
> ><br>
> > IE: If you have a menu with parent items, you expect to be able<br>
> to click<br>
> > on those parent items and have the children expand/display. This<br>
> doesn't<br>
> > happen. It only happens for the menus that are part of a base<br>
> install.<br>
> ><br>
> > This is just one example, but a pretty major reason why Drupal 7<br>
> is not<br>
> > ready for prime-time. Sure, you could install a patch, or one of<br>
> the few<br>
> > modules that fix or override this bug, but why should you have to<br>
> > install a module to do something that should work in the core?<br>
> I'm not<br>
> > asking for new functionality, just make it work the same way as<br>
> it did<br>
> > in Drupal 6.<br>
> ><br>
> > I'm sure there are other examples of things that were ignored or<br>
> > downgraded in the rush to launch Drupal 7 in January, but this is the<br>
> > main one that is preventing me from rolling out any new Drupal sites.<br>
> > When the bugs are fixed that make the core functionality of Drupal 6<br>
> > work in Drupal 7, then I'll be moving quickly to D7....because other<br>
> > than these bugs, it really is a very nice improvement, which i am<br>
> very<br>
> > thankful for.<br>
> ><br>
> > ...........................................................<br>
> > *Nick Young*<br>
> > Outreach, Communications & Consulting<br>
> > Office of Information Technology<br>
> > North Carolina State University<br>
> > Box 7109, Raleigh 27695<br>
> > Ph. 919.513.2716 | E-Mail: <a href="mailto:nick_young@ncsu.edu">nick_young@ncsu.edu</a><br>
</div></div>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:nick_young@ncsu.edu">nick_young@ncsu.edu</a>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:nick_young@ncsu.edu">nick_young@ncsu.edu</a><br>
<div class="im">> <mailto:<a href="mailto:nick_young@ncsu.edu">nick_young@ncsu.edu</a>>><br>
> > Web: <a href="http://oitdesign.ncsu.edu" target="_blank">oitdesign.ncsu.edu</a> <<a href="http://oitdesign.ncsu.edu" target="_blank">http://oitdesign.ncsu.edu</a>><br>
</div>> <<a href="http://oitdesign.ncsu.edu/" target="_blank">http://oitdesign.ncsu.edu/</a>><br>
> > ...........................................................<br>
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