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    thought this was relevant to our discussions the other day:<br>
    <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.drupalmill.com/blog/tsvenson/2011/02/23/drupal-7-not-ready-production-yet">http://www.drupalmill.com/blog/tsvenson/2011/02/23/drupal-7-not-ready-production-yet</a><br>
    <br>
    On 21/02/2011 18:22, Victor Kane wrote:
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:AANLkTi=dLvy4WmfvFaFE1fZi9atMctrA+gBoY8X2fcTm@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">Larry, I think you misunderstand the point. The point
      is not whether Drupal 7 is ready for hot shot Drupal agencies to
      use for high-end clients using a team of rocket scientists.
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Or whether Drupal 7 was hurried out the door to satisfy the
        business models of some companies.<br>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>The point is whether regular people, site builders with no
          special core experience, would be able to find Drupal 7
          usable, just as when WordPress comes out and is generally
          usable as advertised.</div>
        <div>
          <br>
        </div>
        <div>Nick isn't even saying it's the only valid approach, he's
          saying that's the one he is following; and I certainly agree
          with him.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Victor Kane</div>
        <div><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://awebfactory.com.ar">http://awebfactory.com.ar</a><br>
          <div><br>
            <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 5:58 PM, <a
                moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:larry@garfieldtech.com">larry@garfieldtech.com</a>
              <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:larry@garfieldtech.com">larry@garfieldtech.com</a>&gt;</span>
              wrote:<br>
              <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
                0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
                padding-left: 1ex;">Again, I have to disagree. &nbsp;A lot of
                bugs were downgraded from critical<br>
                because critical was being abused for "really bad"
                rather than "Drupal<br>
                doesn't work at all if this isn't fixed", which is what
                it is supposed<br>
                to be for.<br>
                <br>
                Eg, an issue that affects installation of the database
                under certain<br>
                configurations of Mac OS X due to a misconfiguration bug
                in OS X is<br>
                certainly bad, and prevents people in those
                configurations from<br>
                installing Drupal without fixing the configuration bug
                first. &nbsp;However,<br>
                it doesn't mean that Drupal breaks in all or even most
                circumstances.<br>
                (That's an actual bug that was downgraded from critical
                at one point.)<br>
                <br>
                Consider too that Drupal 6 as of right now has over 350
                critical issues<br>
                filed against it:<br>
                <br>
                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://drupal.org/project/issues/drupal?priorities=1&amp;version=6.x"
                  target="_blank">http://drupal.org/project/issues/drupal?priorities=1&amp;version=6.x</a><br>
                <br>
                So I guess Drupal 6 isn't ready for production either.
                ;-)<br>
                <br>
                I'm not saying that Drupal 7 is bug-free. &nbsp;It's not. &nbsp;It
                is, however,<br>
                the most "ready" .0 release of Drupal, both for core and
                contrib, in<br>
                many many years. &nbsp;People have been launching sites on it
                large and small<br>
                for six months, including the US government.<br>
                <br>
                --Larry Garfield<br>
                <div class="im"><br>
                  On 2/21/11 2:48 PM, Nick Young wrote:<br>
                  &gt; The menu bug i mentioned is filed, and was
                  actually listed as critical<br>
                  &gt; prior to the D7 launch. Due to the nature of it,
                  there were a few<br>
                  &gt; concurrent bugs that were filed with this same
                  symptom...it just took a<br>
                  &gt; while for the root cause to be identified. <a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://drupal.org/node/942782" target="_blank">http://drupal.org/node/942782</a><br>
                  &gt;<br>
                  &gt; My biggest concern about D7 though, is that in
                  the lead-up to the<br>
                  &gt; January launch, critical bugs were downgraded,
                  seemingly to meet the<br>
                  &gt; deadline. Instead of keeping to the "we'll
                  release D7 when all critical<br>
                  &gt; bugs are fixed," it became "we'll reclassify
                  critical bugs as major,<br>
                  &gt; which means we can now release D7." This was
                  never more evident to me<br>
                  &gt; than the comment on that bug thread above which
                  said "I can see this is<br>
                  &gt; nasty if you run into it, but I don't see how it
                  is critical."<br>
                  &gt;<br>
                  &gt; I don't want to hijack this thread though, as
                  there is a good discussion<br>
                  &gt; to be had about what sites or projects are suited
                  to D7's current state.<br>
                  &gt; I just think that this particular bug is
                  representative of the larger<br>
                  &gt; issue surrounding how "ready" Drupal 7 is for
                  production sites (ie: it's<br>
                  &gt; not).<br>
                  &gt;<br>
                  &gt; --Nick<br>
                  &gt;<br>
                  &gt;
                  ...........................................................<br>
                  &gt; *Nick Young*<br>
                  &gt; Outreach, Communications &amp; Consulting<br>
                  &gt; Office of Information Technology<br>
                  &gt; North Carolina State University<br>
                  &gt; Box 7109, Raleigh 27695<br>
                </div>
                <div class="im">&gt; Ph. 919.513.2716 | E-Mail: <a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:nick_young@ncsu.edu">nick_young@ncsu.edu</a>
                  &lt;mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:nick_young@ncsu.edu">nick_young@ncsu.edu</a>&gt;<br>
                  &gt; Web: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://oitdesign.ncsu.edu" target="_blank">oitdesign.ncsu.edu</a>
                  &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://oitdesign.ncsu.edu/" target="_blank">http://oitdesign.ncsu.edu/</a>&gt;<br>
                  &gt;
                  ...........................................................<br>
                  &gt;<br>
                  &gt;<br>
                  &gt;<br>
                  &gt;<br>
                </div>
                <div class="im">&gt; On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 3:30 PM, <a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:larry@garfieldtech.com">larry@garfieldtech.com</a><br>
                </div>
                &gt; &lt;mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:larry@garfieldtech.com">larry@garfieldtech.com</a>&gt;
                &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:larry@garfieldtech.com">larry@garfieldtech.com</a><br>
                <div>
                  <div class="h5">&gt; &lt;mailto:<a
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:larry@garfieldtech.com">larry@garfieldtech.com</a>&gt;&gt;
                    wrote:<br>
                    &gt;<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; The menu system was broken in the extreme
                    in Drupal 6, too, just in<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; different ways. :-) &nbsp;You should see the
                    number of menu system hack<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; modules that were still being developed
                    even late in Drupal 6's<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; lifecycle.<br>
                    &gt;<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Is there an open issue for the bug you
                    mention? &nbsp;If not, have you filed<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; one? &nbsp;Bugs don't fix themselves. &nbsp;We need
                    everyone's help to get a<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; system as complex as Drupal really really
                    polished.<br>
                    &gt;<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; --Larry Garfield<br>
                    &gt;<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; On 2/21/11 2:18 PM, Nick Young wrote:<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; one of the big things that has
                    frustrated me with Drupal 7, is<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; that the<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; custom menu system is broken.<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt;<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; By this, I mean that if you build/use
                    a custom menu (anything<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; other than<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; the pre-defined menus of
                    Primary/Secondary etc), then menus will not<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; work as expected. The problem is that
                    Drupal 7 does not assign the<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; correct/necessary "active-trail"
                    attribute to custom menu items, and<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; therefore child items will not expand
                    as you click through a menu.<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt;<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; IE: If you have a menu with parent
                    items, you expect to be able<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; to click<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; on those parent items and have the
                    children expand/display. This<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; doesn't<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; happen. It only happens for the menus
                    that are part of a base<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; install.<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt;<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; This is just one example, but a
                    pretty major reason why Drupal 7<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; is not<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; ready for prime-time. Sure, you could
                    install a patch, or one of<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; the few<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; modules that fix or override this
                    bug, but why should you have to<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; install a module to do something that
                    should work in the core?<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; I'm not<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; asking for new functionality, just
                    make it work the same way as<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; it did<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; in Drupal 6.<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt;<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; I'm sure there are other examples of
                    things that were ignored or<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; downgraded in the rush to launch
                    Drupal 7 in January, but this is the<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; main one that is preventing me from
                    rolling out any new Drupal sites.<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; When the bugs are fixed that make the
                    core functionality of Drupal 6<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; work in Drupal 7, then I'll be moving
                    quickly to D7....because other<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; than these bugs, it really is a very
                    nice improvement, which i am<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; very<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; thankful for.<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt;<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt;
                    ...........................................................<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; *Nick Young*<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; Outreach, Communications &amp;
                    Consulting<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; Office of Information Technology<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; North Carolina State University<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; Box 7109, Raleigh 27695<br>
                    &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; Ph. 919.513.2716 | E-Mail: <a
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:nick_young@ncsu.edu">nick_young@ncsu.edu</a><br>
                  </div>
                </div>
                &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:nick_young@ncsu.edu">nick_young@ncsu.edu</a>&gt;
                &lt;mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:nick_young@ncsu.edu">nick_young@ncsu.edu</a><br>
                <div class="im">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:nick_young@ncsu.edu">nick_young@ncsu.edu</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; Web: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://oitdesign.ncsu.edu" target="_blank">oitdesign.ncsu.edu</a>
                  &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://oitdesign.ncsu.edu" target="_blank">http://oitdesign.ncsu.edu</a>&gt;<br>
                </div>
                &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="http://oitdesign.ncsu.edu/" target="_blank">http://oitdesign.ncsu.edu/</a>&gt;<br>
                &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt;
                ...........................................................<br>
                <font color="#888888">--<br>
                </font>
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                  <div class="h5">[ Drupal support list | <a
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                      href="http://lists.drupal.org/" target="_blank">http://lists.drupal.org/</a>
                    ]<br>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </blockquote>
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