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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">So you have time to attack people for
      disagreeing with you, but not a minute to simply file on issue on
      D.O.? Why not help fix the problem by filing a issue, instead of
      contributing to it by simply ignoring it? <br>
      <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Jamie Holly
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.intoxination.net">http://www.intoxination.net</a> 
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.hollyit.net">http://www.hollyit.net</a></pre>
      On 12/3/2012 12:10 PM, Pat Ferrel wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:6A4B5E6E-137E-4B53-8403-01FCAB1594B3@gmail.com"
      type="cite">
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      Sorry Steve, I didn't mean to wrong you. You are on the right side
      of this. I'd fix or file a bug but unfortunately have bigger fish
      to fry at present. I hope someone else does.&nbsp;
      <div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>For anyone reading this exchange I recommend you pay close
          attention to the names on the exchange emails and filter any
          future advice accordingly. Also pretty much assume your
          passwords here have been compromised and should be used
          nowhere else.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Out.</div>
        <div><br>
          <div>
            <div>On Dec 2, 2012, at 9:28 AM, Steve Kessler &lt;<a
                moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:skessler@denverdataman.com">skessler@denverdataman.com</a>&gt;
              wrote:</div>
            <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
            <p dir="ltr">Pat,</p>
            <p dir="ltr">I did not justify it by saying its a community
              effort. I said that if someone wants it fixed they need to
              stand up and do it. </p>
            <p dir="ltr">I hope that will be you. </p>
            <p dir="ltr">Thanks,<br>
              Steve</p>
            <div class="gmail_quote">On Dec 2, 2012 10:25 AM, "Pat
              Ferrel" &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:pat.ferrel@gmail.com">pat.ferrel@gmail.com</a>&gt;
              wrote:<br type="attribution">
              <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                <div style="word-wrap:break-word">Wow, this is complete
                  foolishness.
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>How does my failure to read a notice have
                    anything to do with an obviously bad practice? Red
                    herring!</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>Also what does the fact that this is a community
                    effort have anything to do with an obviously bad
                    practice? Another red herring.&nbsp;Community can also
                    work to point out failures like this and work to fix
                    them.</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>The password protects low security information
                    but I am not even sure where else I use that
                    password. And this itself is another red herring.</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>Passwords in clear text are universally and
                    absolutely BAD. You can justify the fact that no one
                    has time to fix it. That I understand but the rest
                    of these arguments are purely specious.</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div><br>
                    <div>
                      <div>On Dec 1, 2012, at 2:19 PM, Anthony &lt;<a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:tony@tony-mac.com"
                          target="_blank">tony@tony-mac.com</a>&gt;
                        wrote:</div>
                      <br>
                      Very well written Richard. <br>
                      <br>
                      <div class="gmail_quote">
                        On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Richard Damon <span
                          dir="ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:Richard@damon-family.org"
                            target="_blank">Richard@damon-family.org</a>&gt;</span>
                        wrote:<br>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
                          0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                          solid;padding-left:1ex">
                          <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
                            <div>
                              <div>On 12/1/12 11:57 AM, Pat Ferrel
                                wrote:<br>
                              </div>
                              <blockquote type="cite"> I just got a
                                reminder from the&nbsp;<a
                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="mailto:mailman-owner@drupal.org"
                                  target="_blank">mailman-owner@drupal.org</a>&nbsp;about

                                my account settings for this mail group.
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div>The email contained my password in
                                  clear text!!! This is completely
                                  unacceptable.</div>
                                <div>
                                  <ol>
                                    <li>you should never save my
                                      password in clear text</li>
                                    <li>you should never never send it
                                      anywhere!&nbsp;</li>
                                  </ol>
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                                <div>This is something I'd expect from
                                  bad practices of the last century.</div>
                                <br>
                                <fieldset></fieldset>
                                <br>
                              </blockquote>
                            </div>
                            As has been mentioned, the fact that this
                            will happen is clearly stated on the
                            subscription form. This password policy has
                            been discussed on the Mailman development
                            lists, and the basic argument is that the
                            list password is protecting low security
                            information, as all that someone getting
                            this password can do is to mess up your
                            subscription settings or unsubscribe you
                            from the list. Mailman is also set up to be
                            totally usable by a user via email and not
                            require any web access, the process needs to
                            allow for the transmission of passwords in
                            plain text as their is no other option with
                            email.<br>
                            <br>
                            If YOU made the mistake of using a
                            "valuable" password for the list, and do not
                            trust the security of your email system, it
                            is your own fault, and you should change you
                            password and do your best to clear that
                            email from your client. You can also change
                            your setting to suppress the monthly
                            password reminder, but anyone can get the
                            system to email it to you if they want.<br>
                            <br>
                            &nbsp;As to the other comment about "sensible
                            managers" turning off this option, I would
                            have to disagree, most of the Mailman lists
                            that I belong to do send the monthly
                            reminder, and I would never turn it off for
                            the lists I run because I get enough people
                            who subscribe to lists like this with a free
                            email account so that when the email address
                            gets too well known and starts to get too
                            much spam, the account can be closed down
                            and a new on made (and the list subscription
                            changed), and then the free email account is
                            set to forward to their main account.&nbsp; I the
                            person doesn't POST that often, they may
                            forget what email address the list is
                            actually sending email too, and if you
                            forget what it is, you need to know how to
                            read email headers well to figure it out,
                            assuming the relaying host adds the "for"
                            information in the received headers.<span><font
                                color="#888888"><br>
                                <pre cols="72">-- 
Richard Damon</pre>
                              </font></span></div>
                          <br>
                          --<br>
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                          ]<br>
                        </blockquote>
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                      <br>
                      <br clear="all">
                      <br>
                      -- <br>
                      <p><b style="font-size:13px;font-family:'Lucida
                          Handwriting',cursive"><i>Anthony Stefan
                            Maciejowski</i></b></p>
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                      <br>
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              </blockquote>
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            -- <br>
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