Re: [development] Wasting time and effort - Here's a productive suggestion instead
I tried to post this into the thread earlier, but I may have been blanked due to using a different email (? I only use the digest) Anyway ... Re Suns suggestion earlier about a review period - I proposed the same a long while ago. [A suggestion for reducing new-duplicated modules : require RFC or statement of intent posting] http://drupal.org/node/316973 PLEASE Look at that thread and you will see many others also against *enforcement* ( = manpower & acrimony) but for a generally useful community-based process. Note, not a "core developer" gatekeeper team, but better visibility and feedback loop to resolve dupes. It got to the 'nice idea' stage, but no further. Everyone is welcome to review duplicates over in the [Duplicated Modules hall of shame] http://groups.drupal.org/duplicated-modules-hall-shame where these issues are acknowleged, and hopefully being worked towards. Please see the wording of the statement of intent over there. I'd like to keep out of this debate, which is not succeeding in convincing either Marcel or everyone else, but :
Well it's not that my proposal is totally unrealistic. Only because no one is supporting it does it become so. Would Dries or Angela have proposed it, everybody and his dog would be up in flames of enthusiasm and surely consider it the right way to go.
It could be that everyone disagrees with it because they think it's a bad idea. If one person says doing something is a stupid idea, they may just be being mean or not have had their coffee yet. If three random people say it's a stupid idea, maybe they're ganging up on you. (you could consider what seemed to prompt that) If half a dozen long-time developers, each who have seen this or similar suggestions several times before, try to explain at length exactly why a certain approach isn't such a practical idea, consider the possibility that they may know what they are talking about. If the whole world disagrees with you, you may be the messiah, but you're probably just wrong about this one thing. .dan.
PLEASE Look at that thread and you will see many others also against *enforcement* ( = manpower & acrimony) but for a generally useful community-based process. So enforcement of coding style and not breaking tests is too large of a price to pay, now i see.
Note, not a "core developer" gatekeeper team, Even after me going to lengths doing 20 or so postings to explain and reason what i have in mind, it's amazing people still misunderstand what i propose. Is it me or them.
but better visibility and feedback loop to resolve dupes. Frigging exactly what i proposed.
It got to the 'nice idea' stage, but no further. Well fine, that means any future attempt is doomed to fail, thus status quo is stuck and bound to stay. Why does that make me wonder what sort of device would be required for making a human being to constructively try to understand someone else's perspective and subsequently reconsider their own position.
Everyone is welcome to review duplicates over in the [Duplicated Modules hall of shame] where these issues are acknowleged, and hopefully being worked towards. Well i have no clue what IS going on with the various notification and poll module incarnations. But if we all hope strongly enough, their developers surely will jump over their shadows and team up all by themselves.
I'd like to keep out of this debate, which is not succeeding in convincing either Marcel or everyone else, but : By good rational argument i will be convinced. Feed me :O
If one person says doing something is a stupid idea, they may just be being mean or not have had their coffee yet. If three random people say it's a stupid idea, maybe they're ganging up on you. (you could consider what seemed to prompt that) If half a dozen long-time developers, each who have seen this or similar suggestions several times before, This or similar suggestions - well frankly i posted a detailed proposal how exactly a process like this could look like. And sorry, in the year i've been on this list, i have not noticed any similar proposal (and i just looked again). Furthermore, every situation is unique, and when circumstances changes, old arguments sometimes get invalidated. Which means a clever person constantly reconsiders and adapts his opinion to reality fluctuations.
try to explain *at length* exactly why a certain approach isn't such a practical idea, Yeah like 'dont like it because it sux'
consider the possibility that they may know what they are talking about. Well i am very well considering it, and trust me i'd not have gone on on it in lengths if any compelling argument would have been brought up. Oh and btw, out of a million people asked, how many would have considered men ever flying to the moon possible 500 years ago? Times change, so do eternal truths.
If the whole world disagrees with you, you may be the messiah, but you're probably just wrong about this one thing. Well can one be right in that case without being the messiah? because that'd be pretty large shoes to fill.. btw abundant opposition happened before in history to non-messiah people which were more right than wrong.
rgds. -- "Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal." -- Henry Ford (1863-1947) Change the world! Vote: http://hfopi.org/vote-future
Eventually rational minds can conclude that two coherent ideas are both valid. You ideas may be valid, but the inertia of the current Drupal way (which is rational and funtional) of doing stuff is working. And it is less us who have convince since we aren't the one working against the grain. Sent from a mobile device. On Mar 9, 2009, at 7:37 PM, Marcel Partap <mpartap@gmx.net> wrote:
PLEASE Look at that thread and you will see many others also against *enforcement* ( = manpower & acrimony) but for a generally useful community-based process. So enforcement of coding style and not breaking tests is too large of a price to pay, now i see.
Note, not a "core developer" gatekeeper team, Even after me going to lengths doing 20 or so postings to explain and reason what i have in mind, it's amazing people still misunderstand what i propose. Is it me or them.
but better visibility and feedback loop to resolve dupes. Frigging exactly what i proposed.
It got to the 'nice idea' stage, but no further. Well fine, that means any future attempt is doomed to fail, thus status quo is stuck and bound to stay. Why does that make me wonder what sort of device would be required for making a human being to constructively try to understand someone else's perspective and subsequently reconsider their own position.
Everyone is welcome to review duplicates over in the [Duplicated Modules hall of shame] where these issues are acknowleged, and hopefully being worked towards. Well i have no clue what IS going on with the various notification and poll module incarnations. But if we all hope strongly enough, their developers surely will jump over their shadows and team up all by themselves.
I'd like to keep out of this debate, which is not succeeding in convincing either Marcel or everyone else, but : By good rational argument i will be convinced. Feed me :O
If one person says doing something is a stupid idea, they may just be being mean or not have had their coffee yet. If three random people say it's a stupid idea, maybe they're ganging up on you. (you could consider what seemed to prompt that) If half a dozen long-time developers, each who have seen this or similar suggestions several times before, This or similar suggestions - well frankly i posted a detailed proposal how exactly a process like this could look like. And sorry, in the year i've been on this list, i have not noticed any similar proposal (and i just looked again). Furthermore, every situation is unique, and when circumstances changes, old arguments sometimes get invalidated. Which means a clever person constantly reconsiders and adapts his opinion to reality fluctuations.
try to explain *at length* exactly why a certain approach isn't such a practical idea, Yeah like 'dont like it because it sux'
consider the possibility that they may know what they are talking about. Well i am very well considering it, and trust me i'd not have gone on on it in lengths if any compelling argument would have been brought up. Oh and btw, out of a million people asked, how many would have considered men ever flying to the moon possible 500 years ago? Times change, so do eternal truths.
If the whole world disagrees with you, you may be the messiah, but you're probably just wrong about this one thing. Well can one be right in that case without being the messiah? because that'd be pretty large shoes to fill.. btw abundant opposition happened before in history to non-messiah people which were more right than wrong.
rgds.
-- "Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal." -- Henry Ford (1863-1947)
Change the world! Vote: http://hfopi.org/vote-future
participants (3)
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Dan Morrison -
Greg Holsclaw -
Marcel Partap