http://www.digital-web.com/articles/html5_xhtml2_and_the_future_of_the_web/ Quotes: The fact that Internet Explorer doesn’t really support XHTML as XML in any way, and the problems XML can cause when not all tools in the authoring chain are XML tools, means that there has been little incentive for using XML on the web. This is compounded by search engines not indexing XHTML as XML documents; very few XHTML authoring tools for XML; very few CMS or blogging tools supporting XML correctly all the way from input through database to generation; and very few ad suppliers supporting XML. While HTML 4.01 is formally SGML-based, HTML5 accepts the reality of all browsers using error-correcting tag-soup parsers, and instead describes a specific non-SGML parsing model that includes a defined error correction model. Turning an HTML 4.01 document into HTML5, on the other hand, is in most cases just a question of replacing the DOCTYPE declaration. If a document doesn’t use any of the new elements or APIs introduced by HTML5, the browser just sends it to its tag-soup parser. For most current content-management systems and authoring tools, the change to generate HTML5 instead of HTML 4.01 is simple, and the new HTML5 features can be added to them easily. In addition, many of the new HTML5 features can be emulated using JavaScript for browsers that don’t support them, allowing for a gradual change from HTML 4.01 to HTML5.
On 19/04/07, Karoly Negyesi <karoly@negyesi.net> wrote:
http://www.digital-web.com/articles/html5_xhtml2_and_the_future_of_the_web/
(hopefully this isn't drifting too far offtopic) While I suspect Drupal will still be based on XHTML 1.0 by default for quite a while yet, what do others think of (X)HTML5? And will it have any bearing on Drupal? I have to admit a slight uneasiness about HTML5 - while it is cool that there will be some new useful trinkets and stuff, it just seems hacky and slightly rushed to me. As well as it doing very little to encourage better markup practices. And while XHTML2 probably has close to zero chance of succeeding due to its disruptiveness and lack of interest from browser makers, it does seem much better designed and thought out. -- Cheers Anton
On Wednesday 18 April 2007 5:52 pm, Anton wrote:
On 19/04/07, Karoly Negyesi <karoly@negyesi.net> wrote:
http://www.digital-web.com/articles/html5_xhtml2_and_the_future_of_the_we b/
(hopefully this isn't drifting too far offtopic)
While I suspect Drupal will still be based on XHTML 1.0 by default for quite a while yet, what do others think of (X)HTML5? And will it have any bearing on Drupal?
I have to admit a slight uneasiness about HTML5 - while it is cool that there will be some new useful trinkets and stuff, it just seems hacky and slightly rushed to me. As well as it doing very little to encourage better markup practices.
And while XHTML2 probably has close to zero chance of succeeding due to its disruptiveness and lack of interest from browser makers, it does seem much better designed and thought out.
"HTML5 has support from all the major browser vendors except Microsoft. " Meaning it doesn't matter what we actually want, or what's good for the web. This question will become relevant somewhere in 2019 when IE 9 finally has enough market share that we can start relying on CSS 2 being supported properly. That is how things work in the web, you realize. Personally I like XML and XML semantics. Rejecting grossly mal-formed pages is something browsers *should* do. I agree we need richer form elements, better vector-drawing capability (wait, what's wrong with XHTML+SVG besides IE?), etc. But what we really need is a layout language, which the web lacks right now. (CSS 2 is not a layout language; it's a formatting language that can be bent into a layout language.) But as I said, what is actually useful doesn't matter as long as browsers older than Drupal itself are allowed to exist. (Or IE 7, which is still playing catch up to 2002...) -- Larry Garfield AIM: LOLG42 larry@garfieldtech.com ICQ: 6817012 "If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it." -- Thomas Jefferson
On 19.04.2007, at 05:01, Larry Garfield wrote:
"HTML5 has support from all the major browser vendors except Microsoft. "
That has changed meanwhile: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ public-html/2007Apr/0202.html Konstantin Käfer – http://kkaefer.com/
Konstantin Käfer wrote:
On 19.04.2007, at 05:01, Larry Garfield wrote:
"HTML5 has support from all the major browser vendors except Microsoft. "
That has changed meanwhile: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Apr/0202.html
Erm, you seem to confuse what's called HTML 5 with what is being worked on at the W3C. HTML 5 is the WHAT WG workgroup's result (and it is in development for quite a while now, so I won't call it rushed like Anton did). Recommendation | Group -------------------+--------- HTML 4, XHTML 1.x | W3C -------------------+--------- HTML 5, XHTML 5(!) | WHAT WG -------------------+--------- Now the W3C is working on improving HTML 4 too, and Microsoft joined *that* Group. What will be the name of that version is not yet known (they are not working on the specs yet). Gabor
On 19 Apr 2007, at 10:21, Gabor Hojtsy wrote:
Erm, you seem to confuse what's called HTML 5 with what is being worked on at the W3C. HTML 5 is the WHAT WG workgroup's result (and it is in development for quite a while now, so I won't call it rushed like Anton did).
Apple, Mozilla, and Opera have proposed that the W3C use the WHATWG’s HTML5 draft as the starting point for further HTML development, so the schism is 'healed' as it were. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Apr/0429.html G. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Blog: http://polytechnic.co.uk Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/garrettc Music: http://last.fm/user/garrettc1
On 19/04/07, Gabor Hojtsy <gabor@hojtsy.hu> wrote:
HTML 5 is the WHAT WG workgroup's result (and it is in development for quite a while now, so I won't call it rushed like Anton did).
Yeah, by "seems rushed" I wasn't meaning that it hasn't been around for a while, just that the design of it (to me) seemed like just slapping some mostly useful but inconsistent features on top of previous versions rather than fixing any existing problems in the name of backwards compatibility. As opposed to how Drupal progresses :) -- Cheers Anton
participants (6)
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Anton -
Gabor Hojtsy -
Garrett Coakley -
Karoly Negyesi -
Konstantin Käfer -
Larry Garfield