Hold on your horses. First off, I don't think object oriented is ALL bad. Some things naturally map to objects like user, node, menu, etc, what I am talking about is trying to fit everything into objects. I don't think anyone can argue that object oriented is also equal to bloat. I need a user's name, I load a user object from a user ID which does a million queries or so. As Joe Armstrong, the inventor of Erlang put it: "The problem with object-oriented languages is they've got all this implicit environment that they carry around with them. You wanted a banana but what you got was a gorilla holding the banana and the entire jungle." When an addition application turns into two objects from the Integer class using the + method, and when some wise-ass architect wants you to objectify everything, it does get quite ridiculous. Of course not to mention the 10 times CPU and memory resources used to achieve it. Finally, I don't think many will disagree that when you start thinking about a problem and its solution, you don't start thinking objects. Would love to get the opinions, or better yet, the experience of people who've read others' code written functionally vs OOP. Again, we're not talking about small systems or lousily written ones, but large enterprise systems. I for one get driven crazy following classes, inheritance and finding that each variable is a new class somewhere that's an aggregate of 10 other classes that I have to understand to debug a simple problem. It could just be me of course :) -- Ashraf Amayreh CEO | O-Minds Cell. 962 78 8099997 Tel. 962 6 5655150 Fax. 962 6 5675150 Skype: aamayreh www.o-minds.com web development | web design user experience | branding design Connect with us on Twitter http://twitter.com/ominds Connect with us on LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/aamayreh
"I don't think anyone can argue that object oriented is also equal to bloat. I need a user's name, I load a user object from a user ID which does a million queries or so." No. That would be poor coding. To avoid it, I generally build a few static methods into managers for handling simple tasks. Not sure how Drupal does it currently, but in another fully object oriented framework I work with it looks like: UserManager::get_username(uid); And runs one query. I do not, however, have a static method for non-commonly used things, such as a user's last login time, or join date. Object Oriented most certainly does not mean bloat. Bad code and architecture mean bloat. Regards, Sam Tresler On 02/22/2012 11:46 AM, Ashraf Amayreh wrote:
Hold on your horses. First off, I don't think object oriented is ALL bad. Some things naturally map to objects like user, node, menu, etc, what I am talking about is trying to fit everything into objects.
I don't think anyone can argue that object oriented is also equal to bloat. I need a user's name, I load a user object from a user ID which does a million queries or so. As Joe Armstrong, the inventor of Erlang put it:
"The problem with object-oriented languages is they've got all this implicit environment that they carry around with them. You wanted a banana but what you got was a gorilla holding the banana and the entire jungle."
When an addition application turns into two objects from the Integer class using the + method, and when some wise-ass architect wants you to objectify everything, it does get quite ridiculous. Of course not to mention the 10 times CPU and memory resources used to achieve it.
Finally, I don't think many will disagree that when you start thinking about a problem and its solution, you don't start thinking objects.
Would love to get the opinions, or better yet, the experience of people who've read others' code written functionally vs OOP. Again, we're not talking about small systems or lousily written ones, but large enterprise systems. I for one get driven crazy following classes, inheritance and finding that each variable is a new class somewhere that's an aggregate of 10 other classes that I have to understand to debug a simple problem. It could just be me of course :)
-- Ashraf Amayreh CEO | O-Minds Cell. 962 78 8099997 Tel. 962 6 5655150 Fax. 962 6 5675150 Skype: aamayreh
www.o-minds.com <http://www.o-minds.com> web development | web design user experience | branding design
Connect with us on Twitter http://twitter.com/ominds
Connect with us on LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/aamayreh
On 2/22/12 10:59 AM, Sam Tresler wrote:
Object Oriented most certainly does not mean bloat. Bad code and architecture mean bloat.
Regards, Sam Tresler
I was going to add something, but there's really nothing to add to that. Well said. --Larry Garfield
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 12:27 PM, Larry Garfield <larry@garfieldtech.com> wrote:
On 2/22/12 10:59 AM, Sam Tresler wrote:
Object Oriented most certainly does not mean bloat. Bad code and architecture mean bloat.
Regards, Sam Tresler
I was going to add something, but there's really nothing to add to that. Well said.
It also depends on how well the OO architecture is laid out. Trying to retrofit an old procedural language into OO methodology is mostly cumbersome. What has to happen is the way Drupal works anyway with any major release; out with the old and in with the new. -- Earnie -- https://sites.google.com/site/earnieboyd
I might add that being well-versed in established design patterns helps one avoid bloat and excessive complexity. MM On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 1:26 PM, Earnie Boyd <earnie@users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 12:27 PM, Larry Garfield <larry@garfieldtech.com> wrote:
On 2/22/12 10:59 AM, Sam Tresler wrote:
Object Oriented most certainly does not mean bloat. Bad code and architecture mean bloat.
Regards, Sam Tresler
I was going to add something, but there's really nothing to add to that. Well said.
It also depends on how well the OO architecture is laid out. Trying to retrofit an old procedural language into OO methodology is mostly cumbersome. What has to happen is the way Drupal works anyway with any major release; out with the old and in with the new.
-- Earnie -- https://sites.google.com/site/earnieboyd
participants (5)
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Ashraf Amayreh -
Earnie Boyd -
Larry Garfield -
Matt Murphy -
Sam Tresler