Issue queue links from project pages?
What happened to the issue queue links from project pages? Can they be restored? Best, Margie -- http://www.BaltimoreUrbanAg.org http://www.FriendlyCoffeehouse.org http://www.packtpub.com/drupal-5-views-recipes/book
Quoting Margie Roswell <mroswell@gmail.com>:
What happened to the issue queue links from project pages? Can they be restored?
Issue queue to report this to is ``Drupal webmasters''. Check to see if it has been reported already. -- Earnie -- http://r-feed.com/ -- http://for-my-kids.com/ -- http://www.4offer.biz/ -- http://give-me-an-offer.com/
On May 6, 2009, at 4:19 AM, Margie Roswell wrote:
What happened to the issue queue links from project pages? Can they be restored?
Yes, the issue queue would have been the right place to ask this. However, since a fair number of people seem to have missed it, I'll also answer here... Yesterday I rolled out some changes to the project pages which are incremental steps towards the redesigned drupal.org. In particular, there are 3 new blocks on the right sidebar for each project: 1) "Maintainers for XXX" - with the names of the most recent people with CVS access who committed to the project, some stats about their commit history, and a link to a page with all committers to the project (which would include translation commits, previous maintainers, etc). http://drupal.org/node/371969 2) What we're internally calling the "Issue cockpit" block -- search box, stats about # of open vs. total issues (and the subset of those that are bugs), direct links to advanced search, e-mail subscribe, etc. http://drupal.org/node/425728 3) "Recent issues" -- 5 most recent open issues in the queue. http://drupal.org/node/22402 Therefore, the wall of links below the release table is mostly gone in favor of these blocks. Enjoy, -Derek (dww) p.s. Thanks to the SF d.o redesign sprint in general, and Mark "mfb" Burdett (http://drupal.org/user/12302) in particular, for helping making these blocks a reality.
These are a great improvement Derek, but where are announcements of major changes like this made? On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Derek Wright <drupal@dwwright.net> wrote:
On May 6, 2009, at 4:19 AM, Margie Roswell wrote:
What happened to the issue queue links from project pages? Can they be
restored?
Yes, the issue queue would have been the right place to ask this. However, since a fair number of people seem to have missed it, I'll also answer here...
Yesterday I rolled out some changes to the project pages which are incremental steps towards the redesigned drupal.org. In particular, there are 3 new blocks on the right sidebar for each project:
1) "Maintainers for XXX" - with the names of the most recent people with CVS access who committed to the project, some stats about their commit history, and a link to a page with all committers to the project (which would include translation commits, previous maintainers, etc). http://drupal.org/node/371969
2) What we're internally calling the "Issue cockpit" block -- search box, stats about # of open vs. total issues (and the subset of those that are bugs), direct links to advanced search, e-mail subscribe, etc. http://drupal.org/node/425728
3) "Recent issues" -- 5 most recent open issues in the queue. http://drupal.org/node/22402
Therefore, the wall of links below the release table is mostly gone in favor of these blocks.
Enjoy, -Derek (dww)
p.s. Thanks to the SF d.o redesign sprint in general, and Mark "mfb" Burdett (http://drupal.org/user/12302) in particular, for helping making these blocks a reality.
On May 6, 2009, at 12:14 PM, Jerad Bitner wrote:
These are a great improvement Derek, but where are announcements of major changes like this made?
In place? ;) Seriously, I don't have a good answer for this. I was thinking about it the other night, in fact. For the interested reader: Add a "drupal.org news" block or something http://drupal.org/node/455636 Cheers, -Derek (dww)
On May 6, 2009, at 12:14 PM, Jerad Bitner wrote:
where are announcements of major changes like this made?
In place? ;) Seriously, I don't have a good answer for this. I was thinking about it the other night, in fact. For the interested reader: Add a "drupal.org news" block or something http://drupal.org/node/455636 Cheers, -Derek (dww) p.s. I tried to send this earlier, but it didn't seem to go through. Apologies in advance if this shows up twice...
Quoting Derek Wright <drupal@dwwright.net>:
On May 6, 2009, at 4:19 AM, Margie Roswell wrote:
What happened to the issue queue links from project pages? Can they be restored?
Yes, the issue queue would have been the right place to ask this. However, since a fair number of people seem to have missed it, I'll also answer here...
Thanks for the FYI Derek. The changes look great. Congrats to all involved in making the change a reality. -- Earnie -- http://r-feed.com/ -- http://for-my-kids.com/ -- http://www.4offer.biz/ -- http://give-me-an-offer.com/
I'm not getting it. The issues block disappears when you're actually in the issue queue. Can the Issues and Recent Issues blocks be made to display when we're actually in the issue queue? I'm still wrinkling my eyebrows in puzzlement. Ready to catch a train (sans internet), but will check those links when I'm home in a few hours. Best, Margie, On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Earnie Boyd <earnie@users.sourceforge.net>wrote:
Quoting Derek Wright <drupal@dwwright.net>:
On May 6, 2009, at 4:19 AM, Margie Roswell wrote:
What happened to the issue queue links from project pages? Can they be
restored?
Yes, the issue queue would have been the right place to ask this. However, since a fair number of people seem to have missed it, I'll also answer here...
Thanks for the FYI Derek. The changes look great. Congrats to all involved in making the change a reality.
-- Earnie -- http://r-feed.com/ -- http://for-my-kids.com/ -- http://www.4offer.biz/ -- http://give-me-an-offer.com/
-- Margie http://www.BaltimoreUrbanAg.org http://www.FriendlyCoffeehouse.org http://www.packtpub.com/drupal-5-views-recipes/book
On May 6, 2009, at 1:36 PM, Margie Roswell wrote:
I'm not getting it. The issues block disappears when you're actually in the issue queue.
If you already drilled down to the issue queue, why do you still need the summary blocks?
Can the Issues and Recent Issues blocks be made to display when we're actually in the issue queue?
A) Seems like a huge waste of screen real estate. I'd rather there were no blocks on the issue queue pages, frankly. B) That's technically hard because the view isn't registering itself in the menu system in such a way that menu_get_object() can find the $project context so that the block knows this is a page associated with a given project. (Sorry if that doesn't make sense, see http://drupal.org/node/431726 for a little background if that helps). We *could* hard-code some hacks into the block to still sort of make this work, but it'd be ugly, and IMHO not worth it, especially since I don't want these blocks (any blocks, really) to show up on the issue queue pages... -Derek (dww)
I decided that I like it. Though I think it would be better if the Maintainers block were listed below the other two issue blocks. The Issues block is the far more important one for most users, and shouldn't risk being too far "below the fold" on mobile devices. I'll be clicking most often on the "x total" link in the Issues block. (I agree that some of the other blocks on the issue queue tend to be extraneous.) Thanks for your work on d.o. Best, Margie On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 8:19 PM, Derek Wright <drupal@dwwright.net> wrote:
On May 6, 2009, at 1:36 PM, Margie Roswell wrote:
I'm not getting it. The issues block disappears when you're actually in
the issue queue.
If you already drilled down to the issue queue, why do you still need the summary blocks?
Can the Issues and Recent Issues blocks be made to display when we're
actually in the issue queue?
A) Seems like a huge waste of screen real estate. I'd rather there were no blocks on the issue queue pages, frankly.
B) That's technically hard because the view isn't registering itself in the menu system in such a way that menu_get_object() can find the $project context so that the block knows this is a page associated with a given project. (Sorry if that doesn't make sense, see http://drupal.org/node/431726 for a little background if that helps). We *could* hard-code some hacks into the block to still sort of make this work, but it'd be ugly, and IMHO not worth it, especially since I don't want these blocks (any blocks, really) to show up on the issue queue pages...
-Derek (dww)
-- Margie http://www.BaltimoreUrbanAg.org http://www.FriendlyCoffeehouse.org http://www.packtpub.com/drupal-5-views-recipes/book
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 3:07 AM, Margie Roswell <mroswell@gmail.com> wrote:
I decided that I like it. Though I think it would be better if the Maintainers block were listed below the other two issue blocks. The Issues block is the far more important one for most users, and shouldn't risk being too far "below the fold" on mobile devices.
Well, the redesign goal is to get people featured: show that there are many individuals working on these projects (bug community); show that they worked recently on the project (or not), and so on. These help show that Drupal is a community and help users to decide whether a project is active or not. This will not be the only way which help people make decisions in module selection, but is part of that. Gábor
I think in this case (of maintainers list being shown above the actual list of issues), that that's a developer-centric goal more than a user-centric goal. Most people already have all sorts of anxiety about "I'm not as good as that." I think the maintainers list could tend to reinforce the star power of a few people, but that's a whole psychological question. A note that I'd rather look at the issue queue itself than a maintainers summary to decide whether to use a module. Anyhow, strong vote here for the issues links having a higher priority than the list of top maintainers. The maintainers list is useful! It's good. But why give links that FEW people will click on a higher listing than links that MANY people will click on? It doesn't make sense. Margie On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 3:32 AM, Gábor Hojtsy <gabor@hojtsy.hu> wrote:
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 3:07 AM, Margie Roswell <mroswell@gmail.com> wrote:
I decided that I like it. Though I think it would be better if the Maintainers block were listed below the other two issue blocks. The Issues block is the far more important one for most users, and shouldn't risk being too far "below the fold" on mobile devices.
Well, the redesign goal is to get people featured: show that there are many individuals working on these projects (bug community); show that they worked recently on the project (or not), and so on. These help show that Drupal is a community and help users to decide whether a project is active or not. This will not be the only way which help people make decisions in module selection, but is part of that.
Gábor
-- Margie http://www.BaltimoreUrbanAg.org http://www.FriendlyCoffeehouse.org http://www.packtpub.com/drupal-5-views-recipes/book
On May 7, 2009, at 4:58 AM, Margie Roswell wrote:
The maintainers list is useful! It's good. But why give links that FEW people will click on a higher listing than links that MANY people will click on? It doesn't make sense.
That's a fine question, but it should ultimately be directed to Mark and Leisa of the drupal.org redesign. They spent a *lot* of time thinking about such things, and they clearly intended for the list of maintainers to be more prominent than the information about issues: http://infrastructure.drupal.org/drupal.org-style-guide/prototype/core.html That said, the project pages themselves was an area that Mark and Leisa admitted they didn't pour nearly as much time into as other parts of the site, so maybe they'll agree that the issue blocks should be more prominent than the maintainers block. I suspect the issues block is going to get far more "action" than the maintainers list. However, the point of the maintainers block isn't necessarily to provide links people click on, but text people read. And data about how many maintainers, who they are, and how active they are is important information for assessing the health of a project. That said, I lean towards moving the issues blocks higher up, but I'm going to defer to Mark and Leisa. I've added this question to the list of things we need them to clarify as we continue to work on implementing and deploying the redesign[1]. Cheers, -Derek (dww) [1] http://groups.drupal.org/node/19010
Derek Wright wrote:
However, the point of the maintainers block isn't necessarily to provide links people click on, but text people read. And data about how many maintainers, who they are, and how active they are is important information for assessing the health of a project. Project statistics are useful to us but most users dont care about them. Additionally, the only time I look up project maintainers is when I initially review a module for usefulness and when I have a nontrivial patch to submit and would like direction on its implementation for acceptance. Any other highlighting of the maintainers on the project page will just result in additional private messaging before submitting issues in my opinion. I don't know anyone who wants that ;). That said it IS very important to highlight the great work and who's doing it. But i think that is better done on the users page where it wont get them the bad kind of attention and they can still show prospective clients employers. -mf
Quoting Michael Favia <michael@favias.org>:
Derek Wright wrote:
However, the point of the maintainers block isn't necessarily to provide links people click on, but text people read. And data about how many maintainers, who they are, and how active they are is important information for assessing the health of a project. Project statistics are useful to us but most users dont care about them. Additionally, the only time I look up project maintainers is when I initially review a module for usefulness and when I have a nontrivial patch to submit and would like direction on its implementation for acceptance. Any other highlighting of the maintainers on the project page will just result in additional private messaging before submitting issues in my opinion. I don't know anyone who wants that ;). That said it IS very important to highlight the great work and who's doing it. But i think that is better done on the users page where it wont get them the bad kind of attention and they can still show prospective clients employers. -mf
The block can have the benefit of goading the maintainer into maintaining it. Prestige points for a small issue queue. One problem I see is the "Oldest issue" instead of the "Oldest bug report" and "Oldest support request". The age of a task or a feature request shouldn't be viewed negatively. An issue could be used simply to track other issues or could be used to provide notes to remember and these could be old by nature. -- Earnie -- http://r-feed.com/ -- http://for-my-kids.com/ -- http://www.4offer.biz/ -- http://give-me-an-offer.com/
Earnie Boyd wrote:
The block can have the benefit of goading the maintainer into maintaining it. Prestige points for a small issue queue. One problem I see is the "Oldest issue" instead of the "Oldest bug report" and "Oldest support request". The age of a task or a feature request shouldn't be viewed negatively. An issue could be used simply to track other issues or could be used to provide notes to remember and these could be old by nature.
Agreed on all counts. Median figures are MUCH more useful in this regard as they ignore outliers. -mf
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 1:01 PM, Michael Favia <michael@favias.org> wrote:
Derek Wright wrote:
However, the point of the maintainers block isn't necessarily to provide links people click on, but text people read. And data about how many maintainers, who they are, and how active they are is important information for assessing the health of a project.
Project statistics are useful to us but most users dont care about them.
Are you basing that statement on anything or is that just your speculation? andrew
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 2:11 PM, andrew morton <drewish@katherinehouse.com> wrote:
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 1:01 PM, Michael Favia <michael@favias.org> wrote:
Derek Wright wrote:
However, the point of the maintainers block isn't necessarily to provide links people click on, but text people read. And data about how many maintainers, who they are, and how active they are is important information for assessing the health of a project.
Project statistics are useful to us but most users dont care about them.
Are you basing that statement on anything or is that just your speculation?
I'm not sure they're useful as presented. They're interesting for sure, but not informative as-is. Examples: http://drupal.org/project/paging - last commit from Gurpartap: 2 weeks ago. Next maintainer (Darren): 48 weeks ago. Last D5 recommended release was in January. http://drupal.org/project/panels - last commit (now) by merlin, next by Sun: 11 weeks ago. Last D5 recommended release was Aug 2008. Two heavily used and (I think) maintained modules, but the "at a glance" stats paint a different picture. If I knew less about these projects or the Drupal community as a whole, I do not think I would conclude that these are healthy projects. YMMV. As to the issue queue re-placement, the fact that someone asked on the dev list, and the first reply didn't notice it either should be a hint as to the UX issues caused by putting that block there. Perhaps it is a "zomg they moved my taskbar to the top of the screen and i cant find the start button anymore lol!" kind of thing, but I'm having a tough time reconciling those RHS blocks as related to the full page post in my head. My $0.02. -- Domenic Santangelo senior engineer | workhabit,inc. // email: domenic@workhabit.com | web: http://www.workhabit.com // office: 866-workhabit | direct: 916-288-8243 The information contained in this electronic mail message is confidential and intended for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may be privileged. The information herein may also be protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 UCS Sections 2510-2521. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify us by telephone (866-967-5422) and by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.
Domenic Santangelo wrote:
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 2:11 PM, andrew morton <drewish@katherinehouse.com> wrote:
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 1:01 PM, Michael Favia <michael@favias.org> wrote:
Derek Wright wrote:
However, the point of the maintainers block isn't necessarily to provide links people click on, but text people read. And data about how many maintainers, who they are, and how active they are is important information for assessing the health of a project. Project statistics are useful to us but most users dont care about them. Are you basing that statement on anything or is that just your speculation?
I'm not sure they're useful as presented. They're interesting for sure, but not informative as-is.
Examples: http://drupal.org/project/paging - last commit from Gurpartap: 2 weeks ago. Next maintainer (Darren): 48 weeks ago. Last D5 recommended release was in January. http://drupal.org/project/panels - last commit (now) by merlin, next by Sun: 11 weeks ago. Last D5 recommended release was Aug 2008.
Well, it's pretty accurate -- Panels for D5 is actually very poorly maintained at this point. Paging may actually be maintained and simply not need much attention because it's very small and focused. It does one thing, does it well, etc.
Think twice.
http://drupal.org/project/paging - last commit from Gurpartap: 2 weeks ago. Next maintainer (Darren): 48 weeks ago. Last D5 recommended release was in January.
...tells you that Paging (a rather small module) had no activity in the past 2 weeks, and there is 1 maintainer only. If you find a bug, it's likely that a) you write a patch and that will sit in the queue. b) you create an issue and there is only maintainer to respond.
http://drupal.org/project/panels - last commit (now) by merlin, next by Sun: 11 weeks ago. Last D5 recommended release was Aug 2008.
...tells you that Panels (a large module) has more than one active maintainer and the maintainers are active. It also tells you that the primary maintainer plays a key role, actively maintains the project as leader, and the project is very healthy. Good stuff to use on your site. sun
On May 7, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Domenic Santangelo wrote:
As to the issue queue re-placement, the fact that someone asked on the dev list, and the first reply didn't notice it either should be a hint as to the UX issues caused by putting that block there.
IMHO, the problem is the design of bluebeach itself and how people tend to tune out the RHS blocks entirely. I *knew* there'd be a backlash for trying to incrementally roll out changes like this without swapping the theme. But, I figured it was better to make progress towards the redesign, even if there's a period when the changes aren't quite as visible or brilliant as they will eventually be, since they're still in the context of the current theme. /me shrugs -Derek (dww)
On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 2:59 AM, Derek Wright <drupal@dwwright.net> wrote:
On May 7, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Domenic Santangelo wrote:
As to the issue queue re-placement, the fact that someone asked on the dev list, and the first reply didn't notice it either should be a hint as to the UX issues caused by putting that block there.
IMHO, the problem is the design of bluebeach itself and how people tend to tune out the RHS blocks entirely. I *knew* there'd be a backlash for trying to incrementally roll out changes like this without swapping the theme. But, I figured it was better to make progress towards the redesign, even if there's a period when the changes aren't quite as visible or brilliant as they will eventually be, since they're still in the context of the current theme.
Derek, I wholeheartedly agree, keep up the good work! Rolling everything out at once would be an impossibly huge task. Gábor
On May 8, 2009, at 2:26 AM, Gábor Hojtsy wrote:
Derek, I wholeheartedly agree, keep up the good work! Rolling everything out at once would be an impossibly huge task.
Thanks! Meanwhile, based on the popular outcry and steady stream of requests to "bring back the issue links" on project pages, I've moved the project-specific blocks to the left side bar so they're harder to ignore. Obviously, they'll move again when we switch themes, but hopefully that'll be less traumatic for everyone. ;) http://drupal.org/project/project http://drupal.org/project/drupal http://drupal.org/project/views ... If people still can't see them, I give up. ;) Enjoy, -Derek (dww)
On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Derek Wright <drupal@dwwright.net> wrote:
On May 6, 2009, at 1:36 PM, Margie Roswell wrote:
I'm not getting it. The issues block disappears when you're actually in the issue queue. If you already drilled down to the issue queue, why do you still need the summary blocks?
I wouldn't mind having the issue cockpit block's search box on the issue pages (not issue queue). this would make it easy to quickly search for related issues. --mark
Awesome work, Derek, Mark & SF d.o redesign sprinters! For those who use it, the "drupal.org unleashed" userstyle has been updated accordingly to account for the changes: http://userstyles.org/styles/11133 Enjoy! sun
participants (11)
-
andrew morton -
Daniel F. Kudwien -
Derek Wright -
Domenic Santangelo -
Earl Miles -
Earnie Boyd -
Gábor Hojtsy -
Jerad Bitner -
Margie Roswell -
mark burdett -
Michael Favia