Here is how you can get 4.5 security patches
Hi, I am shocked by the demands to support 4.5. Do not forget that you are not paying Drupal developers to do anything. You are not my boss. Nor anyone else's. On what base do you demand? On the amount of contribution you made to Drupal over time? I have yet to see any such contributor (note: I said contributor, not coder.) who demands this. Therefore, the solution is very simple: if you are running 4.5 and do not want to update, find others in the same situation and hire an able coder who will provide the security patches for you. We will consider adding said person to the security team and some guidance will be providded, but please do not expect too much from our side. Case closed. Kind regards, Karoly Negyesi Ps. While I sometimes work for money, do not consider me. The less 4.5 code I need to touch, the better for me. Money won't change this.
i don't think I heard anyone "demand" support for 4.5 ;) I did hear Liza make a plea for continued support for 4.5 - but that was what this thread was about. Regards, Dan
Hi,
I am shocked by the demands to support 4.5. Do not forget that you are not paying Drupal developers to do anything. You are not my boss. Nor anyone else's. On what base do you demand? On the amount of contribution you made to Drupal over time? I have yet to see any such contributor (note: I said contributor, not coder.) who demands this.
Therefore, the solution is very simple: if you are running 4.5 and do not want to update, find others in the same situation and hire an able coder who will provide the security patches for you. We will consider adding said person to the security team and some guidance will be providded, but please do not expect too much from our side.
Case closed.
Kind regards,
Karoly Negyesi
Ps. While I sometimes work for money, do not consider me. The less 4.5 code I need to touch, the better for me. Money won't change this.
Karoly, I never demanded that you or any other developer to support 4.5. I never even said you needed to support it. Let me clarify my comments : What I meant was, move it to an archived area where people can see the whole history and progression of Drupal. Keep it there with big blaring red letters saying --DRUPAL DEVELOPERS DO NOT SUPPORT THESE VERSIONS. Do so anyway so people can look at the structural aspects of it --and in the event they need anything during an upgrade, at least have the files available. These archives and this information is not for you or any of the current developers. it's not just FOSS products that keep archival reference to their product development. Many proprietary products do so as well. This is for future users and coder and the community in general to learn the product's history and development. Why do you want to make it hard for people to get to this information? What I believe Drupal needs is to make it easy for the community to take care of each other and the product. Steps are already in place like the amazing strides people have taken with documentation. I don't really expect you of all people to offer me any help people to upgrade from 4.5. But there may be others in the community who would and will. So let it be. It is really important for developers like you to take a step back and get out of the organic development of your product's community. Your attitude is an obstacle in this natural progression and is not good for Drupal's product development. It is certainly not good at all for its reputation. / liza On 27.May.2006, at 03:07 PM, Karoly Negyesi wrote:
Hi,
I am shocked by the demands to support 4.5. Do not forget that you are not paying Drupal developers to do anything. You are not my boss. Nor anyone else's. On what base do you demand? On the amount of contribution you made to Drupal over time? I have yet to see any such contributor (note: I said contributor, not coder.) who demands this.
Therefore, the solution is very simple: if you are running 4.5 and do not want to update, find others in the same situation and hire an able coder who will provide the security patches for you. We will consider adding said person to the security team and some guidance will be providded, but please do not expect too much from our side.
Case closed.
Kind regards,
Karoly Negyesi
Ps. While I sometimes work for money, do not consider me. The less 4.5 code I need to touch, the better for me. Money won't change this.
I would like to add my +1 for Liza's perspective in this discussion. I'm a big believer in providing context, rather than censoring or restricting availability. A simple archives area with older releases seems like an easy way to move them off the active table, while not burying them under arcane and splintered cvs repositories. This is standard practice for many FOSS projects out there, and hardly an extraordinary request. (I can imagine the guy who "wakes up" one day, deciding to upgrade Drupal 4.3 and learning he needs to upgrade one major release at a time, but that those releases aren't available except in something called "cvs". While the Spreadfirefox lesson is hard-learned, there is something to be said for such passive provision for the clueless, sleepy or too-preoccupied site admins.) I don't believe the mere existence of tarballs implies support -- especially if they're only available from a clearly marked page. However-- In the interest of being proactive, I also just added a handbook page that endeavors to make clear to n00bs considering Drupal that Drupal is about cutting edge, and that what enables Drupal to be as great as it is is the lack of marriage to backwards compatibility. The page is here: http://drupal.org/node/65922 (Mentioned here as an FYI. I already noted it on the docs list.) I think a lot of the angst expressed out in the field (not by Liza) about having to upgrade older releases could be avoided in the future by a simple and clear caveat emptor message in the handbook. Laura On May 27, 2006, at 7:05 PM, blogdiva@culturekitchen.com wrote:
Karoly,
I never demanded that you or any other developer to support 4.5. I never even said you needed to support it.
Let me clarify my comments : What I meant was, move it to an archived area where people can see the whole history and progression of Drupal. Keep it there with big blaring red letters saying --DRUPAL DEVELOPERS DO NOT SUPPORT THESE VERSIONS. Do so anyway so people can look at the structural aspects of it --and in the event they need anything during an upgrade, at least have the files available.
These archives and this information is not for you or any of the current developers. it's not just FOSS products that keep archival reference to their product development. Many proprietary products do so as well. This is for future users and coder and the community in general to learn the product's history and development. Why do you want to make it hard for people to get to this information?
What I believe Drupal needs is to make it easy for the community to take care of each other and the product. Steps are already in place like the amazing strides people have taken with documentation. I don't really expect you of all people to offer me any help people to upgrade from 4.5. But there may be others in the community who would and will. So let it be.
It is really important for developers like you to take a step back and get out of the organic development of your product's community. Your attitude is an obstacle in this natural progression and is not good for Drupal's product development. It is certainly not good at all for its reputation.
/ liza
On 27.May.2006, at 03:07 PM, Karoly Negyesi wrote:
Hi,
I am shocked by the demands to support 4.5. Do not forget that you are not paying Drupal developers to do anything. You are not my boss. Nor anyone else's. On what base do you demand? On the amount of contribution you made to Drupal over time? I have yet to see any such contributor (note: I said contributor, not coder.) who demands this.
Therefore, the solution is very simple: if you are running 4.5 and do not want to update, find others in the same situation and hire an able coder who will provide the security patches for you. We will consider adding said person to the security team and some guidance will be providded, but please do not expect too much from our side.
Case closed.
Kind regards,
Karoly Negyesi
Ps. While I sometimes work for money, do not consider me. The less 4.5 code I need to touch, the better for me. Money won't change this.
blogdiva@culturekitchen.com wrote:
Let me clarify my comments : What I meant was, move it to an archived area where people can see the whole history and progression of Drupal. Keep it there with big blaring red letters saying --DRUPAL DEVELOPERS DO NOT SUPPORT THESE VERSIONS. Do so anyway so people can look at the structural aspects of it --and in the event they need anything during an upgrade, at least have the files available.
These archives and this information is not for you or any of the current developers. it's not just FOSS products that keep archival reference to their product development. Many proprietary products do so as well. This is for future users and coder and the community in general to learn the product's history and development. Why do you want to make it hard for people to get to this information?
Liza, you know the "history and progression" is closely monitored by CVS, this is the tool we use to watch how the system evolves, and it has all the interesting details, point releases, contributors, etc. people are interested in. If you think it is hard to get files from CVS, despite such nice visual clients as TortoiseCVS being available, please try the process yourself as documented on drupal.org [1] and help the documentation team improve the documentation on how one gets the files from CVS. CVS gives you all the historic information you would like to have, and a lot more, plus it is dead easy with tools like TortoiseCVS. You can even get as far as DRUPAL-3-0-0 which was last touched four years ago. This is what I call history. [1] http://drupal.org/node/22293 Goba
Gabor Hojtsy wrote:
blogdiva@culturekitchen.com wrote:
Let me clarify my comments : What I meant was, move it to an archived
area where people can see the whole history and progression of Drupal. Keep it there with big blaring red letters saying --DRUPAL DEVELOPERS DO NOT SUPPORT THESE VERSIONS. Do so anyway so people can look at the structural aspects of it --and in the event they need anything during an upgrade, at least have the files available.
These archives and this information is not for you or any of the current developers. it's not just FOSS products that keep archival reference to their product development. Many proprietary products do so as well. This is for future users and coder and the community in general to learn the product's history and development. Why do you want to make it hard for people to get to this information?
Liza, you know the "history and progression" is closely monitored by CVS, this is the tool we use to watch how the system evolves, and it has all the interesting details, point releases, contributors, etc.
I think we should simply give people the link to explore that themselves, the mentioning of three letter acronyms is likely to confuse people. This is a link to our web interface to CVS: http://cvs.drupal.org/viewcvs/drupal/drupal/ History of user.module: http://cvs.drupal.org/viewcvs/drupal/drupal/modules/user.module?rev=1.625&vi... Find our when a particular line was added: http://cvs.drupal.org/viewcvs/drupal/drupal/modules/user.module?view=annotat... And a lof of other possibilities. This does a lot more than you can do with a mere tarball if you really want to write the Great History of Drupal. Cheers, Gerhard
On 28-May-06, at 5:39 AM, Gerhard Killesreiter wrote:
And a lof of other possibilities. This does a lot more than you can do with a mere tarball if you really want to write the Great History of Drupal.
Actually, it's also possible to get ViewCVS to generate tarballs of directories, iirc. Perhaps that's something the OSUOSL folks could have a look at (or someone with access to that box). -- James Walker :: http://walkah.net/ :: xmpp:walkah@walkah.net
Gabor Hojtsy wrote:
...please try the process yourself as documented on drupal.org [1]
I just cleaned this page up a bit (moved "how to download old stuff" to its own section, clarified wording in some places, etc.) so hopefully it should be pretty straight-forward. Thanks for the pointer to this page! Once TortoiseCVS is setup (which it installs just like a normal Windows program and has a dialog window to type in the settings), it literally is a 3-step process to download older releases. -Angie
I am not demanding that you support 4.5 forever. I don't think I've ever demanded anything on this list, although I will sometimes suggest forcefully. :-) 4.5 itself is actually quite useless to me, as I first started using Drupal in the early 4.6 days and have never had a running 4.5 install. I don't expect Drupal to provide support or patches for too-old releases. That wouldn't make sense. At the same time, though, the revisionist history of expunging them from the web site is just as bad. Lisa pointed out some practical cases where someone may still need access to an older version. If they're already there on the site, don't remove them. Flag them as "legacy, unmaintained, and insecure. Don't use or you're dumb" instead. I'm referring mostly to older modules. If someone already has a 4.5 site running, and want to add a 4.5 module to it that used to be available, why make it harder for him to get it now? Just to make a point? The other key point I am making is that "you can get it from CVS" is, for 98% of the computer using world, exactly synonymous with "no, we won't let you have it, ha ha!" While almost anyone on this list either knows how to check out an older branch from CVS or can figure it out from the web site fairly easily, the same cannot necessarily be said for the majority of people running those 60,000 Drupal sites (or whatever the current number is). Saying "you can get it from CVS" to someone means saying "you're not 1337 enough". That's something you really don't want to say. On Saturday 27 May 2006 14:07, Karoly Negyesi wrote:
Hi,
I am shocked by the demands to support 4.5. Do not forget that you are not paying Drupal developers to do anything. You are not my boss. Nor anyone else's. On what base do you demand? On the amount of contribution you made to Drupal over time? I have yet to see any such contributor (note: I said contributor, not coder.) who demands this.
Therefore, the solution is very simple: if you are running 4.5 and do not want to update, find others in the same situation and hire an able coder who will provide the security patches for you. We will consider adding said person to the security team and some guidance will be providded, but please do not expect too much from our side.
Case closed.
Kind regards,
Karoly Negyesi
Ps. While I sometimes work for money, do not consider me. The less 4.5 code I need to touch, the better for me. Money won't change this.
-- Larry Garfield AIM: LOLG42 larry@garfieldtech.com ICQ: 6817012 "If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it." -- Thomas Jefferson
On 27.May.2006, at 11:28 PM, Larry Garfield wrote:
Saying "you can get it from CVS" to someone means saying "you're not 1337 enough". That's something you really don't want to say.
Larry, I'm in love. Can you forgive my snorting a little while I LOL? SNORT! /liza
participants (9)
-
Angela Byron -
blogdiva＠culturekitchen.com -
Dan Robinson -
Gabor Hojtsy -
Gerhard Killesreiter -
James Walker -
Karoly Negyesi -
Larry Garfield -
Laura Scott