Larry Garfield wrote:

The application is for permanent members; those that make up the general assembly and have voting powers on some actions and have regular meetings and so forth. Applications have to be approved by the current permanent members.

Paid membership is open to anyone, and gets you a badge you can put on your web site along with the warm-and-fuzzy feeling of supporting Drupal. (I think Kieran mentioned the other day that the DA has some 11,000 EUR for server hardware now thanks to memberships.) If you've not yet signed up for paid membership, remember to do so!

IMO, the main difference is what you want to do for the Assocation and thus the community. Paid membership is effectively support via donation; you get to talk about your membership and have a badge, and support the community that way. Permanent members 'get' voting privileges, but it's a job. Permanent members are ambassadors to the community and are expected to fulfil various roles and actively pursue community goals. It's less of a job than being a board member, in that Permanent Members don't have specific roles, but permanent members are expected to be quite active in the Association, both internally and externally. It's also the job of the PMs to actively ensure that the Board of Directors is acting appropriately. So while Permanent members don't pay fifty Euros a year for the privilege of voting, they make up for that money in time and energy spent.

This is very confusing. There seems to be conflicting and/or missing information. And just 3 days before deadlines close! :( Admittedly I haven't read the statutes. But I don't think I should need to read so much legal detail just to work this out; I don't want to be on the board. I want to be able to vote on the DA board elections. I don't mind if I have a vote in other key decisions the board makes or not (I trust the board members that I would vote for). I am already quite involved with the community and consider myself an ambassador. I'm not quite sure how to quantify that in the questions asked on http://buytaert.net/applications/node/add. What should I apply for and how? I'm not sure what to make of a similar discussion between Angie, Deekayen and Greggles on my application; http://buytaert.net/applications/node/28 Help! :s Regards, Bevan/ On 1/7/08, Greg Knaddison <greg@pingvox.com> wrote:

On Jan 6, 2008 7:03 PM, Earl Miles <merlin@logrus.com> wrote:

...

So while Permanent members don't pay fifty Euros a year for the privilege of voting, they make up for that money in time and energy spent.

Just to nitpick...*some* permanent members don't pay fifty Euros a year. Of course, I'm pretty sure that all permanent members are giving far more than 50 euros worth of their time which is of course the most valuable thing anyone has.

Check out the sidebar on http://webchick.net for example ;)

Greg

-- Greg Knaddison Denver, CO | http://knaddison.com World Spanish Tour | http://wanderlusting.org/user/greg

-- Drupal.geek.nz | Gtalk bevan@lucion.co.nz | YIM rudgy_m_nz | .Mac/AOL b.rudge | skype b.rudge | Twitter.com/BevanR

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Bevan Rudge schrieb:

This is very confusing. There seems to be conflicting and/or missing information. And just 3 days before deadlines close! :(

Admittedly I haven't read the statutes.

http://buytaert.net/applications/node/28 Here it says otherwise.

But I don't think I should need to read so much legal detail just to work this out;

I don't want to be on the board. I want to be able to vote on the DA board elections.

For this, you need to be a permanent member.

I don't mind if I have a vote in other key decisions the board makes or not (I trust the board members that I would vote for). I am already quite involved with the community and consider myself an ambassador. I'm not quite sure how to quantify that in the questions asked on http://buytaert.net/applications/node/add.

What should I apply for and how?

If you ask yourself this question, you probably should not apply. Cheers, Gerhard -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHgVG5fg6TFvELooQRAqf9AJ0W31BnuISlNHR/TMTC6XO1lfCQVwCfacM+ f/YkkCH1U3olH5HjW+0TFUo= =HqkL -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Greg Knaddison schrieb:

I guess that we will find out in this round of applications/acceptances a bit more about where the line is drawn between "active participant who is respected in the community" and "oh yeah, you also get to vote."

In my point of view, the association is certainly a do-ocracy as is the Drupal project at large. People who only want to be a PM or BM because it is cool should really reconsider their application.

Also, I think Earl's recent email on this topic is quite informative - as he said "Permanent members 'get' voting privileges, but it's a job."

Note, that this voting privileges for Permanent members are in fact quite limited. They can elect the board on the general assembly and also vote on changes to the statutes (if there are any proposed). After that the board runs the day-to-day (or rather month-to-month) business. The general assembly is usually held once per year only. Cheers, Gerhard -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHgdkCfg6TFvELooQRAixMAJ4y0INqPKwryZ+LfgX8sNExY3SK7gCffsSg o/vbt7MKWAPzxium8BkpV00= =xzbG -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Thank you all, especially Greg, for your enlightening replies. I can see now that I've misunderstood the purpose of Permanent Members. By this excerpt from http://drupal.org/node/203039...

[Permanent Members'] main responsibility is the appointment and removal of the Directors as well as amending the statutes. In a way, they police the Board of Directors -- if they are unhappy with the Board of Directors' performance, they can appoint or remove Directors. We expect that Permanent Members spend up to two hours/week working on their Drupal Association responsibilities and obligations.

... I understood that PMs' primary purpose in the DA is to vote. However I now understand the PMs primary purpose is to contribute their skills to the DA and it's activities -- the ability to vote is an added bonus. Is this correct, or at least *more* correct? I now also understand why the application questions seemed so unusual. lol. I hope that by understanding MY misunderstanding, DA application-reviewers might better understand and manage other applicants 'sub-standard' applications. I apologize for having checked the 'I have read the statues' checkbox when I hadn't read the statutes. When I saw the length of the statues I figured the checkbox was merely a formality and legal obligation of the application, like the T&Cs for every popular website that you must agree to (but don't read) when registering. I didn't even look in enough detail to see if it was legal jargon or prose that I would have the patience to read. Thank you for correcting my miss-asumptions. At this time I think that the limited time I have for the drupal community and project is better spent in areas that probably aren't considered 'responsibilities and obligations' of a PM. (Although I'm still not really sure what constitutes valid 'responsibilities and obligations' of a PM.) I have removed my application from http://buytaert.net/applications/. I'm a little bit frustrated that I am therefore unable to vote. Although I trust that the decision to only allow DA-contributing members (PMs) to vote was made for good reasons. Thanks all! :) Bevan/

On Jan 6, 2008 5:20 PM, Augustin (Beginner) <drupal.beginner@wechange.org> wrote:

What election method are you going to use? You said you'd look into it, but I am still waiting for an official answer.

I *very much hope* it won't be Plurality Voting. http://drupal.org/node/203039#comment-674344 As explained there, Approval Voting is simple, and VERY good election method and does not contradict the Statutes.

The votes are yes/no on each application to be a permanent or board member. The Drupal Association Statuses, available at http://association.drupal.org/about/statutes-and-internal-regulations, describes how our elections must conducted to be legal. Article 7, section 2 explains admission for permanent members: "The General Assembly shall, by a two-thirds (2/3) vote of the voting members, present in person or by proxy (by two-thirds majority of those present or of the proxy members), decide on the actual admission of the Permanent Member." Article 18 explains admission for board members: "The members of the Board of Directors shall be appointed by the General Assembly and may be removed at any time by the General Assembly. For both cases, a two-thirds (2/3) majority vote of the present or represented members is required." For responsibilities within the board of directors, such as fundraising, article 11 states: "It is the Board of Directors, not the General Assembly, which decides over the assignment of offices within the Board of Directors." The GA is not voting directly on board positions; it is possible to elect board members who want to take on overlapping responsibilities. For example, this happened last year, Zack and Kieran ended up both being listed as fundraisers at http://association.drupal.org/about/staff. -- Neil Drumm http://delocalizedham.com

Augustin (Beginner) wrote:

=============== 1.4.2 Article 18: Appointment The Board of Directors shall elect from its members a President, a Treasurer and a Secretary and such other officers as it deems appropriate for the proper operation of the Association. ===============

There can only be one President (???). What if there are 3 or more candidates? For elections where we have a limited, set number of seats (e.g. one seat for the president), Approval Voting should be used, and it is not sure that it will be, depending on how the election is organised.

I think the Statutes should be amended to specifically state the election method.

Yes, but there can only be one president. I doubt the current seat will be contested this year, but I am thinking much further ahead.

The part of the Statutes that I quoted above is unclear about how the election is to proceed. The election method should be explicitly stated.

Other than this fairly minor, non-urgent point (which I hope will be fixed this year), I am happy about the rest because, as I said, Approval Voting is being used. Sorry about the noise.

Believe it or not, this isn't broken, it's just weird. The General Assembly does not vote for Board positions. We only vote for Board members; we get a yay or a nay. The chosen board members then figure out who will get what position. Generally it's fairly obvious, but we've already encountered the very situation (but not with President) and the board worked it out. So you can't 'run for president'. You can be a candidate to be on the board, and you have to talk about what you want to do on the board, but there's actually no guarantee that you'll get that position. Like I said, not broken. Just weird.

On Tuesday 08 January 2008 22:52, Earl Miles wrote:

The chosen board members then figure out who will get what position. Generally it's fairly obvious, but we've already encountered the very situation (but not with President) and the board worked it out.

I like the quote of the month :) Yes, precisely: the minor point I was referring to was about elections within the board. What happens when/if the directors cannot "work it out"? I'm sure they always will given that the members are all reasonable and full of good will. But it wouldn't hurt to amend the statutes at some stage this year to precise the mode of election if an election to allocate a single seat is needed. Again: my immediate concern is no longer applicable, and I am happy about the election method used for the General Assembly / permanent members. :) Augustin.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Augustin (Beginner) schrieb:

hello,

What is the input format for http://buytaert.net/applications/node/add/application ? Can we add links or html?

I think it is all plain text. Feel free to add links as plain text too. Most people know copy and paste. :)

Can we edit the node after submission (at least to correct typos, etc.)?

Yes. You can also edit to respond to feedback. Cheers, Gerhard -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHgdzzfg6TFvELooQRAjOdAJ9ATVNc/UX8IeZVqj1hqD1BMpP6VwCdE8ey LHec2e7YctgqfAuKfw3Uf6Q= =BhGB -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----