This is blatant cybersquatting. .se domains are subject to UDRP (I believe) and the owner has clearly demonstrated 'bad faith' by attempting to sell the domain for a high price. All that would be needed is for Dries or the Drupal Association to file a UDRP compaint and an arbitrator would almost certainly order the domain transfered as this is clearly 'bad faith' and TM infringements - some of the main reasons for successful UDRP complaints. Under no circumstances should this guy be paid IMHO. Maybe the Drupal Association should be involved in this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UDRP Sean On Jan 3, 2008 10:27 AM, Victor Kane <victorkane@gmail.com> wrote:

what about drupal.org.se???

On Jan 3, 2008 12:16 PM, Thomas Barregren <thomas@webbredaktoren.se> wrote:

...

Dear fellows,

I was deeply choked to find out today that the domain the Drupal domain in Sweden -- drupal.se -- is for sale for €25,000 EUR, that is approximately $36,730 USD!!

See http://groups.drupal.org/node/7948 and http://hiveminds.co.uk/drupal.se.

Best regards, Thomas

My opinion of cybersquatters is not fit for print. If I had my way, what he's doing would be completely illegal. If there's any way Dries can sue his ass for trademark infringement, I think he should. That guy has no right to profit from the Drupal name and holding the domain hostage like that is totally disrespectful to the community who's software he's (still!!) using. What a f***ing schmuck. Khalid Baheyeldin wrote:

The owner of the domain offering it for sale is Carl McDade, now known as Hiveminds.

Carl had some friction with the community back in 2004 or 2005 (Can't remember). You can check the development mailing list archives for details.

On Jan 3, 2008 9:16 AM, Thomas Barregren <thomas@webbredaktoren.se <mailto:thomas@webbredaktoren.se>> wrote:

Dear fellows,

I was deeply choked to find out today that the domain the Drupal domain in Sweden -- drupal.se <http://drupal.se> -- is for sale for €25,000 EUR, that is approximately $36,730 USD!!

See http://groups.drupal.org/node/7948 and http://hiveminds.co.uk/drupal.se.

Best regards, Thomas

-- Khalid M. Baheyeldin 2bits.com <http://2bits.com>, Inc. http://2bits.com Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.

-- Sean Robertson Web Developer NGP Software, Inc. seanr@ngpsoftware.com (202) 686-9330 http://www.ngpsoftware.com

most cases of TM infringement are fought based on the top level domain. the top domain always wins and is usually the cause for cyberaquatting exactly because they can hijack traffic and create brand confusion. if it were not so, why would the owner try to sell it for 25K? they obviously believe the traffic that domain gets just by existing is worth that amount of money. and for a pornographer or other unscrupulous netpreneur, that may be a bargain if they can double their investment in ad monetization or direct sales. / liza Liza Sabater, Publisher www.culturekitchen.com www.dailygotham.com On 03.Jan.2008, at 11:09, Victor Kane wrote:

above and beyond our opinion of cybersquatters, notice that the domain is not .org.

The Drupal Association, or someone in Sweden acting on their behalf, should be able to get drupal.org.se

In Argentina, proof of existence of membership and authorization of an organization is required to take out a site, like drupal.org.ar

Now, this depends on the Swedish registrar organization, so that's where the solution can be found.

On Jan 3, 2008 2:01 PM, Sean Robertson <seanr@ngpsoftware.com> wrote: My opinion of cybersquatters is not fit for print. If I had my way, what he's doing would be completely illegal. If there's any way Dries can sue his ass for trademark infringement, I think he should. That guy has no right to profit from the Drupal name and holding the domain hostage like that is totally disrespectful to the community who's software he's (still!!) using. What a f***ing schmuck.

Khalid Baheyeldin wrote:

...

The owner of the domain offering it for sale is Carl McDade, now known as Hiveminds.

Carl had some friction with the community back in 2004 or 2005 (Can't remember). You can check the development mailing list archives for details.

On Jan 3, 2008 9:16 AM, Thomas Barregren <thomas@webbredaktoren.se <mailto:thomas@webbredaktoren.se>> wrote:

Dear fellows,

I was deeply choked to find out today that the domain the Drupal domain in Sweden -- drupal.se <http://drupal.se> -- is for sale for €25,000 EUR, that is approximately $36,730 USD!!

See http://groups.drupal.org/node/7948 and http://hiveminds.co.uk/drupal.se.

Best regards, Thomas

-- Khalid M. Baheyeldin 2bits.com <http://2bits.com>, Inc. http://2bits.com Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.

-- Sean Robertson Web Developer NGP Software, Inc. seanr@ngpsoftware.com (202) 686-9330 http://www.ngpsoftware.com

Yes Victor, It doesn't matter if its a .org .com or some country code TLD as in this case. Once there is trademark infringement and 'bad faith' use then its cybersquatting. And no it may not be 'illegal' but ICANN and country code registrars have dispute policies set up for exactly this case when someone tries to hijack a TM name and sell it for huge profits. All Dries or the DA has to do is contact the .se registry (I think that that is http://iis.se), and find out about their dispute resolution policy. It might cost about 1,500 or 2,000 (not sure) to file a complaint, but the squatter would stand no chance. Once he tried to sell it for thousands, it is clear 'bad faith', not to mention TM infringement. And yes he can be sued for misuse and TM infringement by Dries if Dries so chooses. It really is incredibly naive and frankly quite stupid to register a TM domain and then try to sell it back for profits. Imagine if he registered pepsi.se or microsoft.se and then tried to sell it for thousands of dollars. He'd get a lawsuit faster than he could say the word 'lawsuit'. Sean On Jan 3, 2008 11:36 AM, blogdiva@culturekitchen.com < blogdiva@culturekitchen.com> wrote:

most cases of TM infringement are fought based on the top level domain. the top domain always wins and is usually the cause for cyberaquatting exactly because they can hijack traffic and create brand confusion. if it were not so, why would the owner try to sell it for 25K? they obviously believe the traffic that domain gets just by existing is worth that amount of money. and for a pornographer or other unscrupulous netpreneur, that may be a bargain if they can double their investment in ad monetization or direct sales.

/ liza

*Liza Sabater, Publisher* www.culturekitchen.com www.dailygotham.com

On 03.Jan.2008, at 11:09, Victor Kane wrote:

above and beyond our opinion of cybersquatters, notice that the domain is not .org.

The Drupal Association, or someone in Sweden acting on their behalf, should be able to get drupal.org.se

In Argentina, proof of existence of membership and authorization of an organization is required to take out a site, like drupal.org.ar

Now, this depends on the Swedish registrar organization, so that's where the solution can be found.

On Jan 3, 2008 2:01 PM, Sean Robertson <seanr@ngpsoftware.com> wrote:

...

My opinion of cybersquatters is not fit for print. If I had my way, what he's doing would be completely illegal. If there's any way Dries can sue his ass for trademark infringement, I think he should. That guy

has no right to profit from the Drupal name and holding the domain hostage like that is totally disrespectful to the community who's software he's (still!!) using. What a f***ing schmuck.

Khalid Baheyeldin wrote:

...

The owner of the domain offering it for sale is Carl McDade, now known as Hiveminds.

Carl had some friction with the community back in 2004 or 2005 (Can't remember). You can check the development mailing list archives for details.

On Jan 3, 2008 9:16 AM, Thomas Barregren <thomas@webbredaktoren.se <mailto:thomas@webbredaktoren.se>> wrote:

Dear fellows,

I was deeply choked to find out today that the domain the Drupal domain in Sweden -- drupal.se <http://drupal.se> -- is for sale for €25,000 EUR, that is approximately $36,730 USD!!

See http://groups.drupal.org/node/7948 and http://hiveminds.co.uk/drupal.se.

Best regards, Thomas

-- Khalid M. Baheyeldin 2bits.com <http://2bits.com>, Inc. http://2bits.com Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.

-- Sean Robertson Web Developer NGP Software, Inc. seanr@ngpsoftware.com (202) 686-9330 http://www.ngpsoftware.com

If evidence is needed of his 'bad faith' use then the posts mentioned (See http://groups.drupal.org/node/7948 and http://hiveminds.co.uk/drupal.se) could be used. Maybe a screenshot should be taken of his post on hiveminds. Also the fact that he used the name for almost 2 years to point to his hiveminds.co.uk site is further evidence of his bad faith use of the name. See http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://drupal.se Sean On Jan 3, 2008 12:48 PM, Thomas Barregren <thomas@webbredaktoren.se> wrote:

Sean Newman skrev:

...

Yes Victor, It doesn't matter if its a .org .com or some country code TLD as in this case. Once there is trademark infringement and 'bad faith' use then its cybersquatting. And no it may not be 'illegal' but ICANN and country code registrars have dispute policies set up for exactly this case when someone tries to hijack a TM name and sell it for huge profits. All Dries or the DA has to do is contact the .se registry (I think that that is http://iis.se), and find out about their dispute resolution policy.

Yes, the Internet Infrastructure Foundation is responsible for the top-level Swedish Internets domain, .se <http://www.iis.se/lang/?id=en>.

Disputes about a .se domain can be handled by the their Alternative Dispute Resolution proceedings <http://www.iis.se/domains/aboutATF>.

...

It might cost about 1,500 or 2,000 (not sure) to file a complaint, but the squatter would stand no chance.

The cost is approximately $1,250 USD or $2,500 USD, excluding VAT, depending on whether there is one or tree arbitrators, respectively. (See http://www.iis.se/domains/aboutATF/atfcost.)

...

Once he tried to sell it for thousands, it is clear 'bad faith', not to mention TM infringement. And yes he can be sued for misuse and TM infringement by Dries if Dries so chooses. It really is incredibly naive and frankly quite stupid to register a TM domain and then try to sell it back for profits. Imagine if he registered pepsi.se <http://pepsi.se> or microsoft.se <http://microsoft.se> and then tried to sell it for thousands of dollars. He'd get a lawsuit faster than he could say the word 'lawsuit'.

I agree. IANAL, but I am certain that Dries, as the rightful owner of the brand, if not registered in Sweden at least by prescription, will win a such Alternative Dispute Resolution proceedings.

/ Thomas

Khalid Baheyeldin skrev:

The owner of the domain offering it for sale is Carl McDade, now known as Hiveminds.

Carl had some friction with the community back in 2004 or 2005 (Can't remember). You can check the development mailing list archives for details.

I have a faint memory of Hiveminds selling a closed source CMS based on Drupal. But don't take my words as truth. I might confuse him with someone else. Perhaps someone knows more?

Great moral guidance there Jeff. Thanks. I was starting to get concerned myself with the amount of name calling going on here. I hope people take your advice seriously and this can be dealt with in a manner worthy of this great community as a whole. ~Jerad On Jan 3, 2008 4:29 PM, Jeff Eaton <jeff@viapositiva.net> wrote:

All legal questions aside, all community respect and contribution concerns ignored, I think that the situation surrounding both drupal.se AND the recent "7 Million" thread on drupal.org are opportunities for us to step back and take a deep breath.

As Drupal grows and gets more attention outside the circle of hobbyists, true believers, early adopters, and consultants who are passionate about building it, there will be more and more of these kinds of things. How we deal with them reflects on us as a community. This doesn't mean that we shouldn't stick to our guns when important issues are being discussed. Rather, it means we need to be *especially* careful not to give in to knee-jerk insults or mean- spirited outbursts. Drupal's community has been characterized by a really awesome vibe for a long time; other people can't change that, only we can. Let's make sure that we don't.

Another person in the community recently emailed me some advice from a Richard Feynman book that I think is really golden at moments like this:

"To see generosity you must be generous enough not to see the meanness, and to see just meanness in a man you must be mean enough not to see the generosity."

Let's be sure that in protecting the community we don't poison its spirit. :-)

--Jeff

On Jan 3, 2008, at 4:37 PM, Sean Newman wrote:

Definitely. We should leave the namecalling aside, but issue like this definitely need to be addressed IMO. Does the Drupal Association have guidelines as to the use of the term "Drupal"?

An excellent question. I still own 'cookingwithdrupal.org'... I'm curious how it would stand up, although I think the name makes it pretty clear that it's Drupal-related, not Drupal itself... --Jeff Eaton

I own "sitedrupal.org". The idea for the site is yet another Drupal news site, specifically focusing on pulling out/commenting on the best-of at drupal.org, groups.drupal.org and lists.drupal.org. The name "sitedrupal" comes from how much time I spend in Google narrowing my search to site:drupal.org. I wrote to the Association and Dries wrote me back personally. Dries wrote that as long as I didn't advertise on the site, -- he was cool with it. This was a couple of months ago, and I haven't done anything with site yet -- though Alex UA and I are thinking of doing it together. Regarding the Drupal.se thing, this kind of stuff is what the Association, in part, was created to deal with, and I'm sure it'll deal with it well. Shai On 1/3/08, Earl Miles <merlin@logrus.com> wrote:

Sean Newman wrote:

...

Definitely. We should leave the namecalling aside, but issue like this definitely need to be addressed IMO. Does the Drupal Association have guidelines as to the use of the term "Drupal"?

The Drupal Association has been working on a trademark policy, but this effort is not yet complete.

In my defense, since Jeff Eaton's remark is immediately after mine, where-in I vented a bit, I'd just like to point out that: 1. If you search all the Drupal mailing list archives for the past nearly 5 years that I've been participating, you'll see that I exercise a great deal of restraint, diplomacy and have spent a lot of effort trying to get people to get along with each other. 2. If you also search for McDade's postings, you'll likely come away with a much more negative picture. DD's $7 million thread was a quite a bit less annoying by comparison. I'm willing to cut people a lot of slack, accept that misunderstandings may be my fault, and keep an open mind. But on occasion I will also call a spade a spade.

I completely agree with this as well. Although I agree that the Dries should pursue whatever legal means necessary to protect his trademarks, I think the Drupal community should take the high road here and refrain from name calling/mud slinging. It's not a constructive way to solve a problem, and honestly I feel like the way this came about there was some effort to create this kind of reaction within the community. I think we would all be best served to just let the process run it's course. Brad