Usability: module idea
The Drupal APC usability report (http://drupal.org/node/83806) has several suggestions for improving error messages, help texts, etc. For example, on page 13 ('detect errors automatically') they recommend: consider providing a link to help besides error message or provide an option for more verbose error reporting. Maybe it would be a good idea to create a small module that extends help text and error messages with a rating widget? "Was this error message useful? [*****]" The response should get send to Drupal.org and then we can prioritize problematic messages. We could ship this module with the Drupal 5.0 betas but leave it out once the final release ships. Seems like a fun little module that could make a huge difference. Ideal for people who want to learn jQuery and AJAX. -- Dries Buytaert :: http://www.buytaert.net/
Hi, On 10/14/06, Dries Buytaert <dries.buytaert@gmail.com> wrote:
Maybe it would be a good idea to create a small module that extends help text and error messages with a rating widget?
"Was this error message useful? [*****]"
The response should get send to Drupal.org and then we can prioritize problematic messages.
This sounds awfully similar to the infamous WinXP message: "This program is not responding. Please tell Microsoft about this problem." Now, I'm not saying that this is a bad idea, but I am saying that it immediately makes me think: "why is Drupal trying to be like Microsoft?", and That Is Bad (tm). I for one, as a WinXP user, have trained myself to instinctively click the "Don't Send" button whenever I see this message. My instinct will no doubt carry over to any such message that makes it into Drupal.
We could ship this module with the Drupal 5.0 betas but leave it out once the final release ships.
Shipping this module only with beta versions is the only acceptable way to do it, IMHO. No way should any users be having a module such as this enabled on a live site - it would be almost as bad as having the devel module enabled (and accessible to all users). I don't really like the idea of an application "bugging" me for feedback about itself. We can gather information that in the long run will improve the usability of Drupal, but we should consider that the information-gathering tool itself is a hindrance to usability. It could also result in people thinking of Drupal as an "annoying" application, and the fact that users are being asked to send information to a central server could also lead to a lack of trust in Drupal's commitment to privacy. Of course, people would trust Drupal with their feedback much more than they trust Microsoft, but still, we don't want to push our luck. If a module like this makes it into core for 5.0 beta, then my number one concern is that it be disabled by default. Users can enable it if they wish to, and they should be encouraged to do so (e.g. through an announcement on the front page of drupal.org). By forcing users to choose to enable the module, we will receive a much higher proportion of real feedback (as opposed to blind-dumb-deaf feedback, or even automated spam feedback). We will also be upholding Drupal's reputation as an app that respects the privacy of its users, and that doesn't try and force them to disclose information. Overall, this gets a -1 from me. It will potentially damage Drupal's integrity, and I think it unlikely that it will actually provide us with much useful feedback. Cheers, Jaza.
On 14 Oct 2006, at 16:30, Jeremy Epstein wrote:
Maybe it would be a good idea to create a small module that extends help text and error messages with a rating widget?
"Was this error message useful? [*****]"
The response should get send to Drupal.org and then we can prioritize problematic messages.
This sounds awfully similar to the infamous WinXP message: "This program is not responding. Please tell Microsoft about this problem." Now, I'm not saying that this is a bad idea, but I am saying that it immediately makes me think: "why is Drupal trying to be like Microsoft?", and That Is Bad (tm).
I think that makes for a pretty bad comparison. IMO. -- Dries Buytaert :: http://www.buytaert.net/
On 10/14/06, Dries Buytaert <dries.buytaert@gmail.com> wrote:
On 14 Oct 2006, at 16:30, Jeremy Epstein wrote:
Maybe it would be a good idea to create a small module that extends help text and error messages with a rating widget?
"Was this error message useful? [*****]"
The response should get send to Drupal.org and then we can prioritize problematic messages.
This sounds awfully similar to the infamous WinXP message: "This program is not responding. Please tell Microsoft about this problem." Now, I'm not saying that this is a bad idea, but I am saying that it immediately makes me think: "why is Drupal trying to be like Microsoft?", and That Is Bad (tm).
I think that makes for a pretty bad comparison. IMO.
Agreed - a better comparison is the trackback software in Mozilla - it's on by default but you can disable it. The first time you hit a problem it asks "do you want to submit a detailed report? Do you just want to send this and never ask you the detailed report question again? Do you want to disable trackback?" I'm paraphrasing, but that's close. It's a great feature for the Mozilla community to be able to give detailed problem reports that can be aggregated, summarized, and the biggest problems can be investigated. Greg -- Greg Knaddison | Growing Venture Solutions Denver, CO | http://growingventuresolutions.com Technology Solutions for Communities, Individuals, and Small Businesses
Comparisons with Windows XP or Mozilla are missing one point: Both happen when there is a severe failure (application crash. Both are modal dialogs that require the user to acknowledge them. What Dries is proposing is different. It does not require the user to do it. The user can simply ignore that request for improvement. Many Fortune 500 web sites have a similar approach to give feedback. If you look at Google, they also have that at the bottom of the page. For example: http://www.google.ca/search?q=drupal&btnG=Search&hl=en There is a "Dissatisfied? Help us improve", which leads to here: http://www.google.ca/quality_form?q=drupal&hl=en&lr= So, what Dries is proposing makes sense, and in no way nags the user or lessen their experience. Those who want to ignore that link can do so. If I had the time, I would have written that module myself.
On 14 Oct 2006, at 18:31, Khalid B wrote:
Comparisons with Windows XP or Mozilla are missing one point: Both happen when there is a severe failure (application crash. Both are modal dialogs that require the user to acknowledge them.
What we need is a very simple module that will be used for a relatively short time. If you want to work on this module, drop me an e-mail in private so we don't get sidetracked by opinions and other discussions. Talk is silver, code is gold. -- Dries Buytaert :: http://www.buytaert.net/
On 14 Oct 2006, at 16:30, Jeremy Epstein wrote:
betas but leave it out once the final release ships.
Shipping this module only with beta versions is the only acceptable way to do it, IMHO. No way should any users be having a module such as this enabled on a live site - it would be almost as bad as having the devel module enabled (and accessible to all users).
No need to debate this point. I specifically said it was a tool to allow beta testers to provide feedback and that it would not be part of Drupal 5.0.0 final. Much like the devel.module is for developers, this tool would be for testers. Providing tools for testers is a Good Thing, regardless of how much it makes you think of WinXP crash reports.
I don't really like the idea of an application "bugging" me for feedback about itself.
We are not bugging you. We are bugging beta testers.
We can gather information that in the long run will improve the usability of Drupal, but we should consider that the information-gathering tool itself is a hindrance to usability.
This is aimed at beta testers.
It could also result in people thinking of Drupal as an "annoying" application, and the fact that users are being asked to send information to a central server could also lead to a lack of trust in Drupal's commitment to privacy.
Ditto. I skipped the rest of your e-mail because it continues the same path. All based on an incorrect fact. -- Dries Buytaert :: http://www.buytaert.net/
I for one, as a WinXP user, have trained myself to instinctively click the "Don't Send" button whenever I see this message. My instinct will no doubt carry over to any such message that makes it into Drupal.
I have mixed feelings on this. Just a few days ago I started getting what appeared to be a severe error on XP while booting. I clicked on the Send button and got back a screen saying this is a known rare problem with a fix, click here to get the fix. Completely painless. If others had not clicked on send they may not have known about the problem and had a fix ready. However this situation does not apply directly to Drupal as there is nothing the user can fix on his machine to make the problem go away. At best Dupal will now know about the problem and fix it. Eventually the website the user was using will upgrade Drupal and get the fix. So using it during beta testing sounds good as we know the website will be updated to the real release. If you want to continue with such an error response during stable releases, the message should go to the webmaster of the site (probably needs a configuration item). I would hope that what ever gets sent has enough information to make it possible to identify the bug.
On Oct 14, 2006, at 4:22 AM, Dries Buytaert wrote:
The Drupal APC usability report (http://drupal.org/node/83806) has several suggestions for improving error messages, help texts, etc. For example, on page 13 ('detect errors automatically') they recommend: consider providing a link to help besides error message or provide an option for more verbose error reporting.
I really like this idea. Case in point, when we included administration help text with a link to the handbook, we got lots of comments telling us why the help text was missing critical information. We improved the information, and the number of comments quickly leveled off, indicating people were getting the information they needed.
Maybe it would be a good idea to create a small module that extends help text and error messages with a rating widget?
"Was this error message useful? [*****]"
The response should get send to Drupal.org and then we can prioritize problematic messages.
In the CivicSpace installer, every error message during installation included a link to CivicSpaceLabs.org with more detailed instructions and the ability to post comments. http://civicspacelabs.org/home/installer_help/082 This allowed us to both improve the documentation, and understand what to improve in the next version. I think we should separate error messages for Drupal administrators from end users. I would enable special error messaging by default for all administrators through the Release Candidates, and Beta's as it's an important part of getting feedback. Alternatively, you could simply count page views from error messages to determine if certain error messages were getting a lot of click-throughs. As long as the error messages didn't show up to the end users, I think you administrators would be tolerant of default feedback mechanisms.
We could ship this module with the Drupal 5.0 betas but leave it out once the final release ships. Seems like a fun little module that could make a huge difference. Ideal for people who want to learn jQuery and AJAX.
Connecting Drupal software, to have stronger interactive feedback with the community that supports and develops it is a very important activity for Drupal going forward. A good place to start would be to get a list of all Drupal error messages, particularly error messages for administration. Then we could create pages in the handbook for them. Cheers, Kieran
-- Dries Buytaert :: http://www.buytaert.net/
2006. Oct 14. -n Kieran Lal Re: [development] Usability: module idea témában ezt írta:
I really like this idea. Case in point, when we included
A think it's a good idea too. I believe in that, most of the people want to help to improve the system they use. Some of them are not smart / involved enough to make patches or bug reports. Hint: if they give bad points to a given docs, we should have a place to write a notice what they'd like to change if they know how. -- Aries
participants (7)
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Dries Buytaert -
Fehér János -
Greg Knaddison - GVS -
Jeremy Epstein -
Khalid B -
Kieran Lal -
Walt Daniels