[consulting] Who exactly is this list for?

[Bob Schmitt]

I think this is a good and valuable thread. One sentence jumped out  
at me in Andrew's original post:

"IMO conversations on this list should not be aligned with member  
business models, they should be aligned with proliferating Drupal in  
a responsible manner."

I seems to me that a Drupal marketing list might be a better vehicle  
for "proliferating Drupal in a responsible manner" than a  
"consultants" list.

My impression was that this list was focused on issues related to  
what it takes to make a living providing Drupal-related services.  
Marketing and promoting the platform is obviously part of the  
equation, matching up with clients is another piece of the puzzle,  
but it would also seem that we should address (and align with) some  
aspects of member's business models.

The Drupal support list addresses a very broad set of problems. It's  
difficult to wade through all the questions. I find that the traffic  
on this list is much more manageable and focused on the kinds of  
issues that are important to me (in my role as a Drupal consultant).

bob

On Mar 4, 2009, at 12:41 PM, Andrew R. Kelly wrote:
> Well said, thanks.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: consulting-bounces at drupal.org [mailto:consulting- 
> bounces at drupal.org]
> On Behalf Of Brian Vuyk
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 2:14 PM
> To: A list for Drupal consultants and Drupal service/hosting providers
> Subject: Re: [consulting] Who exactly is this list for?
>
> Andrew,
>
> (I apologize if this is a little long and rambling - I don't have a
> chance to go over it and cut it down before I meet with a client!)
>
> I probably wouldn't refer to myself as 'tool-agnostic' since I use
> Drupal on 95% of my projects. It's my go-to software provided the
> project isn't one of the small number which aren't suited to Drupal.
>
> I agree with you that the conversations on this list should be aligned
> with proliferating Drupal in a responsible manner. I know I wrote this
> in an earlier post, but I want to emphasize it again as I believe it
> lies at the root of our disagreement: Being mostly consultants on this
> list already familiar with Drupal and its capabilities and  
> shortcomings,
> I don't think much is lost recommending Drupal-only solutions to them
> regardless of suitability. However, I think it would be irresponsible
> of/to the Drupal community to recommend Drupal to a newer Drupal user
> for a job it is not cut out for. This is likely to leave the user
> frustrated with Drupal, and leave a bad impression of this software.
>
> I have much confidence that many of us, on this list, could make  
> Drupal
> do whatever we wanted it to given enough time and dev money. However,
> there are others on this list who can't - they just don't have the
> experience or depth of knowledge yet. When someone asks about whether
> Drupal is suited for a given project, I will do my best to recommend
> what needs to be done to accomplish it with Drupal. I think it's also
> valuable to make the person aware of the challenges implementing it in
> Drupal over another software package would introduce.
>
> I think this mailing list has the potential to be one of the best  
> tools
> for improving Drupal in the community. As a group, I imagine we put
> Drupal through a larger variety of real-world projects than any other
> group. I also believe that we have the best view of Drupal's
> shortcomings. This is what we can use to improve Drupal.  I believe  
> open
> and honest discussion as to the suitability of Drupal to various  
> project
> types will drive improvement.
>
> I don't believe that being a 'Drupal Consultant' requires you to only
> use Drupal, and ignore its shortcomings. I enjoy hearing reasoned
> arguments over why someone chose 'X' software package over Drupal - it
> helps me, in my role as a Drupal Consultant, to advise my clients on
> whether or not Drupal is suitable for their projects.
>
> Brian
>
> Andrew R. Kelly wrote:
>> Brian,
>>
>> Your response is in line with what I was thinking about after my last
> post,
>> that there are varying types of business models on this list, from
>> individual Drupal experts to tool-agnostic experts (like yourself) to
>> Drupal-based solution providers (like my firm).  These different  
>> models
> are
>> manifesting themselves in conversations, which I believe is  
>> harmful.  IMO
>> conversations on this list should not be aligned with member business
>> models, they should be aligned with proliferating Drupal in a  
>> responsible
>> manner.  So as an example, I'd be disappointed if someone posted  
>> to this
>> list "I have a lead on an engagement to provide discussion forums  
>> to a
>> client, how do I position Drupal against vBulletin?" and have  
>> "They really
>> should use vBulletin it's a better product" be an acceptable  
>> response.
> Why?
>> Because Drupal forums are a viable market player and this group,  
>> in this
>> particular setting, cares about proliferating the use of Drupal, not
>> ensuring that Company X (who we don't even know) has a good  
>> discussion
>> forum.
>>
>> I mean no disrespect, just trying to gauge the culture of this  
>> list.  If
> I'm
>> in a minority that has Drupal as a cornerstone of their business  
>> then so
> be
>> it I'll shut up :)
>>
>> Btw the vote is a good idea but I think this conversation is  
>> worthwhile
>> along side it.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>>
>> Andrew,
>>
>> As much as some day I hope Drupal is able to be everything to  
>> everyone,
>> it still does not match up to standalone solutions in some areas  
>> such as
>> wikis or forums. *puts on asbestos underwear*
>>
>> The work I do isn't necessarily about promoting Drupal. It's about
>> providing my clients the best solution to their needs at the best  
>> price.
>> In most situations, Drupal is the solution of choice. However, I  
>> can't
>> in good conscience recommend a client use Drupal if all they want  
>> is a
>> forum (for instance). The costs of making a pure Drupal solution  
>> match
>> up to the feature set of VBulletin is cost prohibitive if that is  
>> what
>> the client wants.
>>
>> Like I said above - I love Drupal, and will use it as far as is  
>> feasible
>> to accomplish my clients' objectives. But it's just one tool in the
>> toolbox, and occasionally, it's not the right one from a cost/benefit
>> perspective.
>>
>> Brian