[consulting] Estimation-Blowout case-studies wanted

Sun Mar 29 10:10:09 UTC 2009

Yes, that's one aspect of the problem.

So we could form Guilds, Professional Associations, American Medical
Association type of thing, or, like CMMI itself, or ISO etc. etc.

You are right in that these are industry standards.

But if companies control those standards they are corrupted. No-one would or
should trust ISO if a single company managed it, or CMMI, or the Food and
Drug Administration (what am I saying?)...

Their is an objective need for industry wide standards developed and
monitored by entities with the obligaton to transparently inform on their
doings, transparently inform on their independence.

No-one is better qualified than those working in the industry to organize,
set up, maintain and keep healthy those entities.

But there is another aspect to the problem, and that is why I call them
unions: we need to defend ourselves against the current tendency to make
working people pay for the current economic, social and political crisis.

In Drupal terms, this means a heavy influx of new work, but a heavy influx
of pressures to work for less money (the "independent" Drupal
"certification" site some people have mentioned here shows an average rate
of USD $30 / hour) and above all, under worsening working conditions.

Individually we cannot defend ourselves. That can only come through
organization.

Of course, every time working people start defending themselves, they are
accused of trying to set up a dictatorship.

So it's a great discussion, I just wish something concrete could come out of
it.

For my part, my working conditions are somewhat ameliorated by strictly
imposing an agile approach which "horizontalizes" my virtual workplace.
Tasks and due dates don't come down vertically, they are decided with full
client participation (and accountability) in the process.

That's all I can do individually, but an association of Drupal website
application developers (either individual contractors or employees of shops)
could do a lot of things.

Victor Kane
http://awebfactory.com.ar
http://projectflowandtracker.com

2009/3/28 John Fletcher <net at saltwebsites.com>

>  I agree, fascinating discussion. Victor, I think you should solve this
> problem at the same time as the recently discussed “cleaning up after bad
> developers” problem. The solution should not be named a union but an
> industry group... like a group of professionals. Individuals/companies can
> sign up, for which they pay a yearly fee. You review some of their work and
> “certify” it, sort of, to allow them to join. Once they’ve joined, all work
> produced by a member must be reviewed by another unrelated member, giving
> clients a certain level of peer-review quality. This won’t force an hourly
> rate but you could recommend one for your members... at least they would
> have something to stand on when they charge more.
>
>
>
> Or something like that. No examples of something like this that worked come
> to mind so it could be completely stupid; it’s just some ideas floating
> around my head.
>
>
>
> But I did want to mention that the problem discussed in the “cleaning up
> after bad developers” thread has nothing to do with Drupal. It has to do
> with IT workers and exists in all facets of IT. Truthfully, it exists in
> basically all kinds of work – that’s why you get recommendations on a
> builder instead of just opening the yellow pages, isn’t it? I think
> independent review would be the best way to solve it but I don’t know of
> that practice really existing at all in IT. I guess no-one wants to pay for
> that.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> John
>
>
>
> *From:* consulting-bounces at drupal.org [mailto:
> consulting-bounces at drupal.org] *On Behalf Of *Victor Kane
> *Sent:* Thursday, 26 March 2009 12:00 PM
> *To:* A list for Drupal consultants and Drupal service/hosting providers
> *Subject:* Re: [consulting] Estimation-Blowout case-studies wanted
>
>
>
> Fascinating discussion.
>
> But to all you Adam Smith people, I have to say:
>
> There is no such thing as the individual small producer: there are
> factories and workers, monopolies, and wannabe monopolies, and you may think
> you are free and individual, but we are all workers in a factory, and the
> bosses are driving down wages and salaries as we speak.
>
> Our real problem is to band together and demand a minimum wage for each
> category.
>
> We need a union.
>
> Of course we have a right to publish our minimum wage! Of course we have a
> right to declare rates beneath which no-one should be accepting work.
>
> So:
>
> * All certification under control of the website application developers
> union (we can affiliate with writers, with communications, etc...)
> * No to monopoly certification programs and other attempts to create
> monopolies with the aim of driving down rates.
> * Minimum wage for each category.
> * Drupal free always as in beer and speech. Drupal development open to all.
>
> Only a uniion can do that.
>
> Otherwise we'll all be washing dishes in Soho, because it's a better paid
> job than developing websites.
>
> Consultants, unite! You have nothing to lose except your WSOD.
>
> Victor Kane
> http://awebfactory.com.ar
> http://projectflowandtracker.com
>
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Michael Prasuhn <mike at mikeyp.net> wrote:
>
> I see the logical fallacy that you present here, but I think that misses
> the most poignant part of the message you are replying to and that is:
>
> Publishing your rates != Agreeing to set minimum prices.
>
> Anyway.
>
> -Mike
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 25, 2009, at 5:12 PM, Cary Gordon wrote:
>
> There is a logical fallacy in there. What you are really claiming is
> that rate disclosure does not directly lead to a monopoly, therefor it
> is either legal or somehow not as illegal as other collusive behavior.
> We could have a long discussion of what type of fallacy it is. I go
> for begging the question.
>
> Feel free to disclose your rates. On advice of counsel, I won't.
>
> Cary
>
> On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 1:25 PM, Mehboob Alam <malam at thinkx.com> wrote:
>
> But I'm far from convinced that its illegal to share your rates with your
> competitors,one to one or on a mailing list.
>
>
> If GM, Ford, Chrysler and Toyota agree to set prices, that's "collusion"
>
> If JetBlue, SouthWest, Alaska and others decide to set minimum prices
> for certain routes, that's "collusion"
>
> If several LCD manufacturers agree to fix their prices, and that ended
> up costing Apple a lot of money due to the lack of competitive
> bidding, that's "collusion".
>
> Publishing your rates here.. not so much. The clients have a choice of
> thousands of possible vendors for these kinds of projects, and it
> would be difficult to set minimum prices.
>
> And then, anyone who desperately needs the work can easily low-ball
> their rates to get the project.
>
> So, fire away.. :)
>
> just my opinion..
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> --
> Cary Gordon
> The Cherry Hill Company
> http://chillco.com
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> __________________
> Michael Prasuhn
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