[consulting] Unionizing Drupal

[Sami Khan]

On Sun, 8 Aug 2010 09:13:18 -0300, Victor Kane <victorkane at gmail.com>
wrote:
> It is a pleasure to debate with you Sami, and to discover and agreements
> and
> also huge differences. Just a pity that you would play the
"totalitarian"
> card against anyone attacking your beloved capitalism. 

I try to hold a realist sort of view on these matters (which is open to
change), from the perspective of what works. I bet your experience of
Socialism is tempered by Peronism? (who some don't even consider really
socialist) There are many other countries who were not as lucky as
Argentina in terms of having someone like Peron at the helm to bring about
social justice... Venezuela is an excellent example these days. 

> It is amazing how
> when one asserts the need for workers control (instead of parasites'
> control, that is control by those who work for a living over what they
are
> producing and what happens where they live) there is a reflex, which
needs
> to be broken to arrive at a fair discussion, that this is some kind
> of tyranny, de Toqueville's "tyranny of the majority" perhaps.

In my eyes, as for worker control, there are two issues. One is autonomy,
the other is redistribution of wealth and reduction of disparity. In the
Drupal space you may have autonomy, you can work as an independent
developer. Further you can form egalitarian relationships with other
workers and work towards a goal of generating work for yourselves. Adding a
bureaucracy to this is wholly unnecessary. On the other hand people who are
not capable of doing this, and there are many who simply can't work outside
of a hierarchy and need order, have the option of either joining a company
or forming a cooperative. If they join a company, I agree their labour may
be exploited... but they have enough choice that if they don't want to do
that, they don't have to.

Stuff has to get produced, there must be a way to produce it. The people
involved in its productions, whether the workers or the managers are not
parasites... If your company is using you, move to another company, or work
for yourself. If the owners of capital are parasites, fine, as a worker you
may simply avoid them in this space... There is no need for investors or to
work for a corporation. So who is really getting exploited here, only the
people who are incapable of looking out for themselves... they need
hierarchy. Now to drag everyone else down with them, to me doesn't seem
fair to those that would do well by themselves.

> My bottom line on this list is: Drupal must not be gutted by the
> corporations, as so many open source projects have been in a pattern
clear
> enough to call a cycle, and Drupal workers (those making the code and
> consultants testing and using it) must not be co-opted and enslaved.
> Obviously one's cosmovision is going to impinge on how we see solutions.
I
> guess everyone has pretty much stated their opinions.

I agree with the idea that corporations should not "gut" Drupal. But what
does that exactly mean? It is my position that corporations are not what
will gut Drupal, but competition will... and competition from the lowest
bidder in a separate economy with a much lower price level. Yes
corporations might bring those people into the game, but we all enable
them. We enable them with free source, free documentation... virtually no
barriers to entry. This process really can't be stopped by unionism,
because corporations aren't going anywhere and neither is competition, they
will be nipping at your heels no matter what you do. They will always have
other content management systems to sell to your customers if you try to
shut them out of your business.

Marxism does not carry over very well to the situation in which we find
ourselves.

Sami



> 
> Victor Kane
> http://awebfactory.com.ar
> 
> On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 9:05 AM, Sami Khan <sami at etopian.net> wrote:
> 
>> > I don't think wars, famine, disease, the ruination of the
environment,
>> loss
>> > of freedom, loss of a neutral internet and the clarity that
capitalism
>> is
>> > utterly incapable of solving any of the problems facing mankind right
>> now
>> > is a context in which you can flippantly throw around quotes like
this.
>>
>> Victor I think you are a bit too dogmatic about the subject... we need
>> more nuanced approach rather than pointing the finger and saying down
>> with
>> X ideology. Every time we have tried that in the past, we have ended up
>> with the new boss, worse than the old boss. i.e. the Soviets and the
>> Nazis.
>>
>> Wars: yes, wars for oil; but common anywhere where there is a power
>> disparity and a willingness to use force.
>> Famine: there is an Indian economist who has shown that democracies
don't
>> suffer famine related food shortages. Capitalism is more efficient at
>> routing resources, even if it from the poor to the rich.
>> Ruination of the environment: Industrialism and consumerism in general;
>> failure to develop sustainable systems in equilibrium, not just
>> capitalism.
>> Loss of freedom: Complex political problem.
>> Neutral internet: I blame capitalism.
>>
>> > It is Capitalism which is attempting to thrive in its death throes
with
>> other
>> > peoples lives, children, money, everything, and needs to be replaced.
>>
>> A bit of ideological totalitarianism there too... we have ways of
>> regulating capitalism as well. Complex political realities can't be
>> simplified into ideological terms.
>>
>>
>> > Yes, we need to be thinking about socialism, the simple idea that
>> workers
>> > (not a Stalinist bureaucracy) internationally control democratically
>> > the
>> > plan of production on the basis of people's real needs, and the
>> > distribution
>> > of what is produced, with the aim of creating an excess capable of
>> filling
>> > everyone's needs.
>>
>> This is not possible. Consumer's needs can't be predicted or planned,
the
>> market is in flux... The system is too complex. Needs and wants change
>> continuously and so the developers must be flexible to meet those
needs.
>> Introducing any systems which reduce flexibility and guarantee
anything,
>> put a burden on the organization trying to provide the work that causes
>> it
>> to collapse. All sorts of politics goes on in any human social
structure.
>>
>> I will end there, there is room for discourse... but no room for
>> totalitarian discourse and populism.
>>
>>
>> > So as developers of open source software we need to think of how we
can
>> > emancipate our project and make sure it continues to fulfill the
needs
>> of
>> > individuals, communities, organizations, small businesses, and we
need
>> to
>> > think how to defend our income from the current attack on those
working
>> for
>> > a living, as the crisis hits deep into the US for the first time
since
>> the
>> > 1930s.
>> >
>> >
>> >> Unions serve their purpose, which is primarily to protect workers of
>> >> rote. Unions have never been a force in fostering outwardly-facing
>> >> innovation. Most Drupal developers, and most freelancers in general,
>> are
>> >> innovators, not rote programmers.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Workers create everything you see around you, and solve an
innumerable
>> > number of creative problems in the process of production in every
>> factory,
>> > in every shop, in every place goods are created and services are
>> offered.
>> > It
>> > is the bosses who spread the racist (class hatred) lie that workers
are
>> > rote, in order to justify lowering salaries and wages and in order to
>> > justify their own parasitical existence. And don't kid yourself, we
as
>> > developers, even if we slave away in our homes feeling that sense of
>> > freedom
>> > from the office, are workers too. We don't accumulate capital and we
>> don't
>> > extract surplus value from the work of others. We have nothing but
our
>> > hours
>> > of socially useful work to bank on. And we are at the mercy of huge
>> forces
>> > at work.
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Odesk seeks to treat programming as a commodity, an hourly wage for
an
>> >> activity no longer differentiated by talent or innovation, so
ensured
>> by
>> >> keeping framed diaries of activity that must fit into the
>> single-tasking
>> >> mold rather than a value-priced product. The Odesk model applied
>> >> elsewhere would have us pay for a meal based solely on the time
spent
>> >> preparing it.
>> >>
>> >
>> > We should be paying for a meal based on the effort put into it and
>> nothing
>> > else. And our work is a commodity otherwise it would not have a
price.
>> But
>> > the commodotizing that oDesk does is not that, it is programmed to
>> > lower
>> > wages and place all the advantages at the doorstep of the employer,
and
>> > none
>> > at the door of the worker.
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> I am an artist, not a manufacturing line worker or a plumber.
>> >
>> >
>> > My plumber Joe is Picasso. Viva Joe the plumber (in the best sense of
>> the
>> > word). Have you ever looked over a broken bathroom, taken the
>> requirements
>> > of the end users, decided upon the architecture (which artifacts,
which
>> > kind
>> > of piping, etc) and then implemented that, making changes as you go
>> along
>> > based on input? Christ yes we are plumbers. We are exactly plumbers.
In
>> a
>> > context in which the biggest corporate plumbers (BP) are showing
their
>> > inherent ineptitude of their model.
>> >
>> > "You're still fucking peasants as far as I can see" -- John Lennon
>> >
>> >
>> >> Like
>> >> painters, sculptors, writers and architects, my rate is based on the
>> >> final product, the innovation, quality and skill I bring to its
>> >> creation, not how many lines of code I generate per hour, and that's
>> >> what clients here prefer.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Same as every worker, mate. Please don't feel insulted. I am proud of
>> the
>> > name I chose for my Drupal blog.
>> >
>> > Victor Kane
>> > awebfactory.com.ar
>> >
>> >
>> >
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