[consulting] American Labour Laws & Future of Labour

Mon Aug 23 02:25:53 UTC 2010

> I'm not following this conversation, and It's filling my inbox. Sure,
easy
> to delete. But harder to sift through what's relevant to me.

So you are arguing that there might be something of value, but because you
don't have the time to sift through it, the conversation should not
exist... Self control, my friend...

> 
> Time to leave the list or to chat with the moderator about their role in
> moderating.

Yes, censorship is the answer!

> 
> Perhaps it's time to spawn another list to accommodate this
conversation?

I would not be totally against this idea.

> 
> Kevin
> 
> On Aug 22, 2010, at 13:23 PM, Andrew R. Kelly wrote:
> 
>> +1.
>>  
>> We’re abandoning this list if this doesn’t stop.
>>  
>> Andrew
>>  
>> From: consulting-bounces at drupal.org
>> [mailto:consulting-bounces at drupal.org] On Behalf Of David Hazel
>> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 1:17 PM
>> To: sami.khan at etopian.com; A list for Drupal consultants and Drupal
>> service/hosting providers
>> Subject: Re: [consulting] American Labour Laws & Future of Labour
>>  
>> Heinz you've been misinformed regarding this list.
>>  
>> It's not the "consulting" forum. 
>>  
>> It's the "my country/government/social agenda/values" are better than
>> your "country/government/social agenda/values" rant forum.
>>  
>> But don't feel bad, I think most of us inadvertently signed up to the
>> wrong list. Maybe someone should fix the title.
>>  
>> But that's just my delusional two cents (or whatever the appropriate
>> denomination for your preferred currency is).
>>  
>> -Dave
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 9:00 AM, Sami Khan <sami at etopian.net> wrote:
>> On Sun, 22 Aug 2010 11:30:37 -0400, "Heinz D. Wegener"
>> <heinz at simplexcreative.com> wrote:
>> > It's amazing to me how much this "consulting" forum is used to debate
>> > socialism vs. capitalism. Socialism is completely counter-intuitive
to
>> > being a consultant. Being a consultant implies that you are
interested
>> in
>> > finding jobs that will make you money so that you can support your
>> family.
>> > You are participating in capitalism. This hatred of corporations is
>> > foolishness. Success is not evil. Profit is not evil.
>> 
>> If the world was as simple as you make it out to be, and all these
ideas
>> and thoughts can simply be resolved by consulting a few history books
and
>> chanting some mantras about how great everything is... then I might
agree
>> with you. The real world is a complex place, if you look around a bit
>> outside of your own life and maybe your circle of friends -- or if you
>> have
>> ever been down on your luck, you would understand.
>> 
>> The US has a large underclass, approximately 40 million people; these
>> people live below the poverty line. The ideas and the policies are
>> largely
>> to blame for these people being put in their position and not being
>> "successful". Profits are not the problem, but when 30% of the economy
is
>> based on financial products for simply allocating money, something is
>> definitely wrong there.
>> 
>> If the things continue to go the way that they have been, this
underclass
>> will grow and there is no guarantee that you or someone you care about
>> won't end up in it. Entrepreneurship is contingent upon the economy,
and
>> the economy is contingent upon the middle class for people such as
>> yourself. Supporting policies that increase the size of the middle
class
>> and make sure that they have enough money, guarantee that there are
>> opportunities to be had. That's the basics. Beyond that there are
>> questions
>> of morality. Is success for some necessary, sure. But to what extent?
>> Unlimited profits? What if that means that the size of the underclass
>> grows, from 40 million to say 80 million or above. Is that a good way
to
>> support "success"?
>> 
>> There are some who simply debate to win... that is not the aim here.
The
>> aim is to explore where one stands and see where there are in relation
to
>> everyone else. In doing that we create possibilities for futures,
rather
>> than leaving that task to those who are "successful"... because all
that
>> they want is to be more "successful". Which means that they want the
>> underclass size to grow.
>> 
>> You are simply self-concerned with your life, and because things are
good
>> for you and those that you care about, you rather ignore that there are
>> any
>> problems... That sort of reactive auto-control approach is what put us
in
>> the economic situation that we are in right now.
>> 
>> 
>> > My father and his family did not emigrate from Germany to America to
>> > experience despair and normalcy. They came with hope, and they had
>> nothing.
>> > They were hard working people with a desire to succeed in one of the
>> best
>> > countries in the world. My father was 6-years-old when they came to
>> > this
>> > country. He worked his ass off with the goal of becoming successful
and
>> was
>> > motivated to do so partially because kids would call him a Nazi in
>> school
>> > just for being from Germany. And guess what? He succeeded. And guess
>> what
>> > else? He is the most generous, giving man I know, and has an amazing
>> heart
>> > for people. There's your evil capitalist.
>> 
>> The Germans are doing fine at this point. So you would be fine whether
>> you
>> were in the US or in Germany; probably better if they are from West
>> Germany. Anecdotes like this about the reaffirmation of American Dream
>> tell
>> us nothing about the actual situation on the ground. Certain statistics
>> paint a different picture. The truth lies somewhere in between.
>> 
>> If you want some anecdotes of people who are not as lucky as you or
your
>> family, look here:
>> http://www.youtube.com/user/invisiblepeopletv
>> 
>> 
>> > My father-in-law experienced the same type of success after his
family
>> > fled from Cuba. Both he and my father both become owners of
successful
>> > companies. With socialism comes the death of that hope that most
>> immigrants
>> > had back in the 40's and 50's and still have today.
>> 
>> I think that hope is dead already and it's because of the financial
>> banksters, who are motivated by capitalism. It may be the case that
those
>> times are gone for good and we will have to settle for some more social
>> solutions or else face being in the underclass of capitalism.
>> 
>> 
>> > Study your history, and
>> > learn the truth yourself. Entrepreneurs were, and continue to be,
some
>> of
>> > the primary contributors to America's success.
>> 
>> I am happy for your family. I also don't support totalitarian Cuba, or
>> any
>> totalitarian socialist economy.
>> 
>> >
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