[consulting] Suggestion for Dries and Moderators: New Politics List

[Sami Khan]

On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 00:43:14 -0600, Adam Mordecai <mordecai at advomatic.com>
wrote:
> Sami, Thanks for ignoring all the actual things I have to say regarding
> unions, and just cherry picking out the "management" stuff. Better to
> ignore what I bring up rather than respond to it. My only point RE
> management was that a union has to be created by its individual members,
> not by the people hiring those members.

And my point was, considering you are management and have certain vested
interests, you specifically have a certain agenda. You have further shown
that agenda by not being a part of the discussion and chiming in perfectly
uninformed and forming unfounded rhetoric about how this thread is getting
in the way of people asking "actual" questions. My point further was that
your opinion added nothing to the on-topic discussion other than to shut it
down.

Perhaps you mean well, I don't know; but considering that you were not a
part of the discussion your own ultimate contribution was to tell me to
take it elsewhere and that I that I am somehow not participating by not
starting a group for it elsewhere.  You initially chimed in saying I was
off topic, and comparing it to the absurdity of Brittany Spears in a
development forum. My point was you are interested in shutting down
discussion and free speech because it is not in your interest to talk about
unions. I hope that was clear.


> So you are arguing for unions just because you can, not because you
> actually believe in them? Thank you for clarifying where your intentions
> lie. 

No, I believe in them somewhat under certain conditions; whether or not
those conditions have been met has yet to be seen. I was doing it to spur
discussion. I, unlike other people who don't believe in free speech,
believe in expressing the full spectrum of ideas as a public art form so
that people may chime in; and many people did just that. Khalid further
suggested we do that, after I suggested that you Americans have been so
conditioned by your elites that you act with outrage if anyone speaks
against their political ideology; and in many was your proved that. A
number of times I have been attacked in attempts to shut me up; this is
the latest of such attacks. 

Continuing with the idea of debate, once people have argued both sides of
the issue; this then forms the spectrum of opinion and people may figure
out there own position as to where they stand. Again if you had been
following this group, you would know that Khalid started the topic about
unions after someone put Victor down for advocating for unions and I
defended Victor. So yes, I have contributed more than many, and that's a
good thing -- rather than you who have contributed less... and have come in
here to attack me for what I am doing and accusing me for being off topic;
and making the absurd comparison to Brittany Spears. Did I say, hit me baby
one more time; no I did not.



I apologize for confusing you with Victor, maybe he should be the one
> to start the group, butpeaking of "chimed in just to say something" it's
> just that you've posted to the list this month 48 times (like 5 times
more
> posting than anyone else and 18% of the entire lists traffic for the
> month), and 40 of those emails didn't really have anything to do with
> actual consulting, so they all sort of ran together after a while. 

I am glad we are calculating useless statistics about what in your opinion
was off-topic. I will mention again that you are not the owner or manager
of this list.. We don't have a manager, we don't need one. I would now go
and do stats for how many times you have posted some useful information to
the list, but I don't care about managing that... You dig?


> So now that we are done insulting each other personally, I'll go back to
> my original point, 

You should go back to managing your employees and stop trying to shut down
the discourse... but you persist.

> which was some people who are passionate about the issue
> should create a group on GDO around organizing and unions, (I'll gladly
try
> to recruit some union folks who are knowledgable in our field to join)
and
> this list should go back to being an actual place to talk shop, rather
than
> a sociopolitical history and philosophy 101. I will not respond further
> onlist so as not to clog the list more. 

Thank you for your suggestion. We will consider it and act on it, if we
feel that it is in our best interest. In the meanwhile if we wish to talk
about unions here we will continue to do so... If it seems as it's on
topic and it's something that we wish to discuss.

As this is starting to be a flame war between me and you, I suggest any
further posts be addressed directly to me. I will continue to argue my
position and defend myself if provoked in public... and more importantly,
defend the right to free speech.

Further, anyone who is not interested in what I am saying should filter my
e-mail address out so they don't hear from me... and so I don't have to
answer their questions with my expert knowledge for FREE!

Sami