[development] Arquitectura Drupal

Victor Kane victorkane at gmail.com
Thu Apr 24 09:24:00 UTC 2008

Sure, Larry, let me try to put forward what I have in mind, just for the

There is an historically accepted "general" sense to the term "MVC", which I
said I was clearly using, and I said I wasn't going to get into the
classification game very clearly.

So to use the paradigm of "truth" and "untruth", is to impose an
out-of-context excessively abstract grid upon the discussion.

Drupal is a framework with a big "code debt"; in horrible need of a great
deal of refactoring, to say the least; but one thing everyone agrees upon is
the possibility of overriding functionality cleanly without hacking core,
and the possibility of dealing with persistence, logic and view in cleanly
separated ways, is what makes it stand out. I think that is the most
important thing. And people should find out about that.

To impose a very abstract design pattern on it, as if it had been designed
on that basis, is idealism at its worst: to cram reality into abstract
ideas. To put the cart before the horse. To believe that ideas motorize
history, in the Hegelian sense. But it is the work of human beings which
drives history:

Design patterns are for designing. Drupal wasn't designed around a design
pattern, at least not with the granularity you are presupposing. So I don't
think there is room for anything more than a very general approach to even
speaking of Drupal and design patterns in the same breath.

There may be some sense to speaking of Drupal and design patterns in the
context of refactoring. That would be a discussion worth having, based on
work, based on a dynamic. Like your excellent discussion on the database
abstraction question.

Victor Kane

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 10:41 PM, Larry Garfield <larry at garfieldtech.com>

> I was being polite.  I was pointing out that something you said was
> untrue.
> No more, no less.
> On Wednesday 23 April 2008, Victor Kane wrote:
> > Oh, I beg your pardon, I thought we were having a polite discussion.
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 7:30 PM, Larry Garfield <larry at garfieldtech.com>
> >
> > wrote:
> > > On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 11:14:07 -0300, "Victor Kane" <
> victorkane at gmail.com>
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > > > Quick English translation: Above and beyond classifying Drupal in
> one
> > > > or another design pattern in the strictest sense, we speak of MVC in
> > >
> > > relation
> > >
> > > > to Drupal because of its clean separation of data persistence and
> forms
> > > > (model), logic (http request and response, or Drupal page
> life-cycle)
> > >
> > > and
> > >
> > > > view (the HTML that is returned to the browser), and that there are
> > > > many API's and opportunities to override in a clean fashion.
> > >
> > > Which is wrong.  3-part separation does not imply MVC.  MVC is one
> > > specific 3-part separation that is poorly suited to the web.
>  WebMVC/MVC2
> > > is a stupidly named architecture more properly termed "Rails-style",
> > > since most of them are inspired by Ruby on Rails' misuse of the term
> > > "MVC".  I personally happen to think it is a fairly bad architecture,
> > > too, but that's more subjective.
> > >
> > > See the previously posted link for more details, and please stop
> calling
> > > Drupal something it is not.
> > >
> > > --Larry Garfield
> --
> Larry Garfield                  AIM: LOLG42
> larry at garfieldtech.com          ICQ: 6817012
> "If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of
> exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea,
> which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to
> himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the
> possession
> of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it."  --
> Thomas
> Jefferson
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