[development] #drupal and #drupal-contribute split (Was: Re: Proposal: Move all dev support off this list to new StackExchange site)

Randy Fay randy at randyfay.com
Sat Mar 19 15:47:14 UTC 2011

I do think that Gabor has a point: We're probably not at the edge of
disaster. But we do have to figure out ways to adapt to our growth.  And
Angie's concerns are totally valid in what she's worried about as we grow.

Could we let everybody go wherever they want, but try to provide "community
guides" (probably both people and techniques) to try to help them understand
what's out there? This is similar to the suggested moderation-and-escalation
technique, but more broad.

What if there was a single support list where you *always* got an answer, at
least from a guide, who would either repost your question to an appropriate
place, or help you find the appropriate place to continue? And that might
include non-"owned" resources like drupalmodules.com and

It seems like we have lots of people who might be willing to take shifts as
"community guides" and help people find the resources they are looking for.
Maybe I'm overly optimistic about how many resources the most needy require,
or overly optimistic about how many people could/would take this role, but
it's a thought. Both Gabor and Angie have definitely been community guides
in the macro sense. Could we scale this and make it more widely available?


On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 2:13 AM, Gábor Hojtsy <gabor at hojtsy.hu> wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 8:49 PM, Angela Byron <drupal-devel at webchick.net>
> wrote:
> > We've repeated this "retreat into our shell" pattern over and over again.
> > IRC (#drupal -> #drupal-contribute), mailing lists (development ->
> > groups/issue queues), the forums (issue queues). What we're left with now
> is
> > an entire "generation" of Drupal users who think Drupal.org is a place to
> > *consume*, not a place to *participate*.
> > In the end, I have absolutely no idea where Drupal 9 core/contrib
> developers
> > are going to come from. And that is absolutely terrifying.
> > And, fwiw, I "called" this inevitable outcome back in 2009 when this
> shift
> > was proposed: http://drupal.org/node/634486#comment-2272630 Bleh. :(
> Angie, did this happen to Drupal 7? (Given many of the IRC, forum vs
> issue queue, etc. migration happened considerable time ago) I've seen
> lots of new faces contributing to Drupal 7, and it seemed to follow
> the natural way of progression as Drupal 5 and Drupal 6 went. Some
> people keep being in the top list and totally new faces come in,
> who've not even contributed to the previous version, or barely did so.
> If these "siloifications" did not have a clear effect so far, how do
> you expect them to kick in for Drupal 9?
> I think there are all kinds of levels of access now. There are people
> who come and participate (contribute) at Drupalcons, then the
> Drupalcamps, then the meetups, then the issue queues, then forums,
> then the lurkers who just consume information. The community grew big
> and there are just too many avenues to contribute and participate.
> For a really small village school, all children are taught in one
> class room together, even their ages are spanning multiple years, and
> there is one teacher. As the village grows, the classes grow and it
> becomes impossible to fit all kids in one room and for one teacher to
> guide them. Then come multiple classes, one for each year, and subject
> expert teachers. Once the classes grew big again, then comes multiple
> classes even for the same year, and teachers become so numerous that
> you need to manage them too.
> For kids, which classes they take and who gonna be their teacher is
> not a matter of choice, its well defined. In Drupal's case, "our kids"
> maybe even don't know where they need to learn or where they need help
> vs. where can they be teachers and guiders. I think we merely need
> better ways to help people get to the right place, not to unify all
> places and get everyone in a biiiig hallway, where it becomes a mess
> and impossible to guide people to the right place.
> Just imagine every event of a Drupalcon happening in the keynote room.
> Since, ... you know ..., everybody can fit there, the keynotes proved
> it. Does that make it easier to help people find each other and make
> progress?
> Gábor

Randy Fay
Drupal Module and Site Development
randy at randyfay.com
+1  970.462.7450
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