[support] Class modules

[Warren Vail]

Bill,

I hope you understand my comments were only intended to show that I was
looking for something different than what you very well demonstrated in your
book.  I will be consulting the book again, to be sure.

I heard many positive statements about how outsourcing would never result in
replacing really talented American know how, long before it actually began
to happen.  Even though it defied all logic, the dollar (and the bonus
programs that drove decision making) pushed many jobs to India, China and
Russia where there was a pretty good, if not adequate, talent pool to be
had.  When a manager could get a bigger bonus by hiring cheaper (maybe not
quite as good) talent, the result was inevitable.  I sincerely hope it
doesn't happen, but I can almost guarantee that somewhere in states where
education budgets are suffering heavy cuts, the idea is being considered.
There are snake oil salesmen in every organization, it would seem.

What I was actually looking for was a system that would take course content
and build a tutorial flow that would manage a training session, text, video,
slideshows, with questions, pop quizzes and reinforcing exams, exercises,
with evaluation of results, etc.  It should also be able to evaluate quiz
questions based on student distribution of wrong responses, etc. to help
refine material.

Warren Vail

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Fitzgerald [mailto:bill at funnymonkey.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:35 AM
To: support at drupal.org
Subject: Re: [support] Class modules

Hello, Warren,

Some notes inline below:

Warren Vail wrote:
> Good sources, I have the book, found it lacking but didn't give any
thought
> to why.  

There are definitely things not to like -- in particular, I cringe at 
the sections on file/media handling, which has changed entirely since 
the book was written. I also cringe at the section on the text editors, 
as the WYSIWYG API is now a better choice if one must actually use a 
text editor.

The CCK, Views, and OG sections, however, have all aged pretty well.

> Closer look at this indicates a difference between what I am
> looking for and Mr. Fitzgerald's

Ach! Please, call me Bill.

>  focus.  The book seems to focus on
> supplementing the classroom process, instead of trying to find an
> alternative to that process.
>   

The beauty of Drupal is that it can be used to do both. In writing the 
book, I used the language of the classroom to describe the site build, 
as the vocabulary of the classroom will be more familiar to educators. 
However, the core building blocks discussed in the book (CCK, Views, OG) 
will work just as well in a more traditional classroom setting as in a 
learning environment with no hierarchy at all -- or, in any social 
context whether it's education-related or not. Although the book is 
geared toward education, the concepts apply equally well across the board.

My personal preference is for a system of learning that is 
student/process driven, but that's a different conversation.

> As a software developer, I have been part of, and victim of, a global
effort
> to imbed knowledge in software to make it unnecessary to keep lots of
> developers on staff, allowing for offshore (cheaper) talent to supplant
what
> I do.  
>
> My limited vision of what I needed would allow someone to create courses
to
> teach the special knowledge of the courses author, then, the teaching
would
> continue without the teacher's active participation.

Use OG. Override the presentation of group content via the theming 
layer. Depending on your specific needs, this could get you all of the 
way there. If not, it will highlight where you need custom 
code/additional modules.

>   Much of what I know
> about Drupal development was learned this way, from books just like Mr.
> Fitzgerald's, perhaps not as well done as formal teaching, but not as
costly
> as formal classrooms.
>
> This raises the question, will educators become the next victims of
> globalization?
>   

No. People might try, and there will be lots of people attempting to 
sell us on a "more efficient educational system" but they should be 
rejected as the snake oil salesmen that they are. Learning takes time; 
reflection takes time; understanding takes time. Time can't be outsourced.

Cheers,

Bill

> Warren Vail
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tony Zielinski [mailto:tony at webavant.com] 
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 9:45 PM
> To: support at drupal.org
> Subject: Re: [support] Class modules
>
> Bill Fitzgerald wrote a 400 page book about using Drupal for education  
> actually http://www.packtpub.com/drupal-for-education-and-e-learning/book 
>   .  You should read back through the posts on the Drupal in Education  
> group at http://groups.drupal.org/drupal-education .
>
>
>   

-- 

Bill Fitzgerald
http://funnymonkey.com
FunnyMonkey -- Click. Connect. Learn.
ph. 503 897 7160

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