I obviously have to throw my 8 cents into the mix, since I feel like I've been one of the most consistent advocates of dispensing with drupal.css altogether. In fact, in the rewrites I'm doing of Democratica (renaming to Groundswell I think), SpreadFirefox (renaming as SpreadSpread) and Lincoln's Revenge (same name...), I'm regexing drupal.css out entirely. It may mean that I have to copy over a bunch of styles from drupal.css, but at least I'll know why they're there and who put them there. That said, I think we need in general a more rational approach to styles, classes, IDs, xhtml standards across Drupal. We're at a point now where a lot of work could stand to be done on the quality of XHTML output such that even without a drupal.css file, the system would still be usable and adequately attractive, in Netscape 3 or mobile phone terms. Additionally, I'm running up against severe limitations in available themeable functions and can't do the kind of UI improvements that I feel I should be able to because not enough "themability" has been "bubbled up" to the theme layer. I have some 25 themeable functions in my theme overhaul and I've barely scratched the surface of what I *want* to be able to do. But, to get back to the topic at hand here, we need to think on this topic for just a moment longer and look at why drupal.css is such a pain in the ass and why it continues to be forced on themers. The points raised about usability, to my thinking, don't hold up. Besides the weird floated admin boxes, I don't know where drupal.css makes the standard xhtml UI more "usable", especially if you rip out the module-specific stuff. Additionally and as such, this really comes back to the integrated admin UI issue. Given that, it seems like we ought make drupal.css optional for themers and begin work on the Drupal admin UI theme. It seems like drupal.css should really handle drupal-specific UIs -- the stuff that themers probably don't care to touch, and I posit that those UIs are the ones under the /admin path. We decided to tackle this at DrupalCon and now that the drupal.css discussion has come up again, let's really address the source of the problem: Drupal's admin UI is complex, inconsistent and annoying to theme... It's time to work on that problem and leave theming the front-end to the themers and stop getting in their way. Let the eggs fly. ;) Chris