like dries, i'm not 100% certain that these patches point us in the precise direction that we want to go. but i do think they move us significantly forward, which is about all we ask from a patch. none of us has certainty about where this is all headed. if we don't like working with these flows, we can change the code for the following release. this is not a marriage.
Disadvantages: - Improved consistency, but not ultimate consistency. Most things will continue to use the "old style" worfklow (and hook mechanism).
IMO, this is not a real disadvantage. We never had ultimate consistency, and never will. We will keep improving "old style" stuff as itches get scratched. The latest version of the node submit patch lets node modules keep their their hook paradigm. the node.module is registering fapi callbacks for them. just the function names and params changed slightly.
- Not always easier to use or easier to theme. Not exactly elegant either -- often very verbose.
themeing pertains only to the profile patch. as mentioned elsewhere, i expect people to theme using the new user_profile.tpl.php. i agree that theme_user_profile is more complicated than before, but thats not really important .
- Expensive in terms of processing cost. Performance matters a lot and unless we make Drupal faster, we won't see bigger and bigger Drupal site.
yes, performance matters a lot. it is less relevant for the node submit patch, since node submission is a rare event. node submit uses standard fapi, so unless we want to open a debate on fapi performance, this is off topic. note that most sites do show at least 2 forms every page view (search and login), and thats a where i suggest we pour attention if we care about fapi performance. the performance of the user profile patch is more interesting. constructing the various fields and categories is virtually unchanged. the rendering is a bit more complex in this patch, but we already tested this with the node body patch (http://drupal.org/node/74326). this is perfectly analogous, except for the fact that it happens far less frequently (and thus is less risky). do we really have to benchmark again? this is just a different array going through the same drupal_render() engine. SUMMARY i think i've addressed most of the concerns. i'm willing to keep doing so. users can still submit nodes and view profiles. with this patch developers can programmatically submit nodes easier, and can view/alter profiles using a more standardized method. they can alter profile fields to show/hide using #access, and they can recategorize as needed. themers get a new user_profile.tpl.php, and well as cleaned up markup in case they want to style using only css.
When discussing, stick to the topic at hand and avoid wandering off to Meta Land to discuss the way we do things in general, or how we should do things. This is a _technical_ mailing list, and I'm explicitly asking for a _technical_ discussion on this matter. Don't bother responding unless you spent at least 20 minutes poking at the above patches, or unless you tried an example or two. Take the time to investigate this, be critic, and share your own opinion rather than repeating what others have said (without having looked at the patches yourself). There, I've said it. :)
this is a terrific thread starter. i'd like to append it to all my issues.