On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:38:13 -0700 "Steven Peck" <sepeck@gmail.com> wrote:
This is not a black mail. I already made a 8000+ line investment in Drupal, I hope it will be out of the gates in the coming weeks.
Sure it is. You brought it up as an example with the implied I will take my toys and go home and that people would blink. I realize you
As much as "we are the doers" you're not.
Not really. If you are not involved, then you don't get a vote or influence. Really. There are times in the 4.7 -> 5.x cycle and also the 5.x -> 6.x where I did not have time to pay attention to the issue queue and as a result core module behavior and/or other decisions were made that I did not like/agree with. That's all right, they worked out but because I did not have time to be involved, I did not get to vote in those cases. People did not stop and send me an email to solicit my opinion on things, they discussed and arrived at a solution.
I understand the problem and I'm aware of the time it takes to take the responsibility to listen everyone even if they are busy doing something else. That's why I posted an email asking what is and what I should expect it will be the "policy" on cost of upgrades.
It doesn't take that much work to pay attention to the issue tracker and trends. It doesn't take that much time to occasionally pull something down and test it. And that time you spend is so infinitely valuable and results in some seriously important dividends. It gets another set of eyes on code/changes. It gets
It takes time to learn. At this moment it was faster to ask rather than getting involved at the level I'd like and you're saying.
The cost is time. And we return to; "Open Source doesn't cost less, it costs different."
Once you put everything in the bill, it costs less.
If we just vote with our direct contribution. Once I'll finish my module I'll vote with my non contribution and switch to something else since if you insist in this wall against wall and calling names, it doesn't look the place where I can make long term investments.
See now we return to 'take my toys elsewhere subtext'. If you decide to work/contribute to a different project then that's what you decide to do. It would be unfortunate, but it's also a natural life cycle behavior thing too.
Exactly. That's why I was asking. I paint future scenario. I could be wrong... but still I've to make forecasts.
And excuse you? I do not believe I called you names in any of the emails I sent and am seriously annoyed at your implication that I did so.
I was not referring particularly to you.
How is it still not relevant or true today? Drupal is more that seven years old and still following it's founding principals and mission. As it has gained in complexity it has slowed down in releases but that is a sign of it's maturity and the larger number and nature of contributors. There are also a lot of new and
Well, as I said things are following a natural path.
relevant technologies still out there that people are wanting to integrate into Drupal. The web is not yet mature.
Yep but you don't rely on a feature or technology that's not there already.
As a contrib developer and occasional contributor to drupal code I'm expressing my need to lower that percentage and I feel that my need is in line with the reached maturity of Drupal. I don't think it is not in line with natural life cycle of any project getting more mature and I don't think I'm an isolated case.
It is slowing down, just doesn't seem to be slow enough to address your concerns.
If there will be some interests on providing extended security support at least as a test... I've some hopes that things will calm enough once D8 will be out. Larry wrote: «"Looking hard" is a lot of work, both technical and manpower. That's the point I was making. We can reduce the amount of work with some careful planning, technological solutions, and/or money.» I was wondering when it will be the time of "careful planning"... BTW I still haven't reached the 20K lines mark. I'm around 8000+ and the overall stuff is split in 3 "core" modules and some plug-in modules, but there are dependencies that are there and can't disappear by magic. So I won't be able to port A, B and C but not D and see everything work. It seems I won't be touched by the new D6 DB API... I'm just going to ignore the changes, I'll ignore D7 API cos I won't be ready and I'll enjoy D8 API that may take something that may make all that code more DB agnostic. Still if Larry estimates a 60% costs on upgrade how can he sustain that the change in the API was negligible? Where do you see the costs in upgrading? -- Ivan Sergio Borgonovo http://www.webthatworks.it