Hi Bèr, Earl, Although, as you know, I'm not much of a themer, I happen to have already done some thinking tangentially related to both your approaches: it's the theme of "multichannel" drupal, or how to access/use a drupal site without a web browser. For my own needs, this stems from the need for back-office GTK-based apps accessing the e-commerce front office; for others, it might be serving cHTML or even WAP. I think that considering this type of scenarios might guide both these projects and their possible convergence/cohabitation: both a set of consistent xml ids, and the ability to have a no-HTML output or, if necessary, an HTML output with consistent id/class naming make it easier to create the transforms used that can be used in these more challenging (drupal-wise) environments. So it might also make it easier on future theme developers. Just my 0.02... FGM