RE: 5.0 and or 4.8 (was Re: [development] Drupal x.x.0 freeze date)
-----Original Message----- From: development-bounces@drupal.org
The 4.5 to 4.6 roadmap while interesting was in my opinion a fairly interesting boondoogle.
It might have been "boondoogle", but I wouldnt have called the 4.5/4.6 a roadmap. IMHO drupal might needs some form of a roadmap written down. We tend to forget that we /do/ have a roadmap, it is just all over the place (like the real roads) in people's heads (like a mind map). Writing it down, adjusting it on the fly, will do wonders for outsiders (potential users/customers, developers etc) The reason we don't have a roadmap, is twofold. One: we don't /need/ a roadmap and two we don't /want/ a roadmap. The second reason is mostly because people are afraid it will be fixed. Roadmaps aren't fixed, roads can change, so can roadmaps, they are not rigid. The first reason is from /our/ point of view valid, however we are not alone in this world and it will create new opportunities for Drupal from an outsiders POV if we did have a roadmap.
On 02 May 2006, at 10:15, Boerland, Bert wrote:
The reason we don't have a roadmap, is twofold. One: we don't / need/ a roadmap and two we don't /want/ a roadmap. The second reason is mostly because people are afraid it will be fixed. Roadmaps aren't fixed, roads can change, so can roadmaps, they are not rigid. The first reason is from /our/ point of view valid, however we are not alone in this world and it will create new opportunities for Drupal from an outsiders POV if we did have a roadmap.
What kind of opportunities? Remind that people can't rely (i) on a roadmap that changes all the time and (ii) code that has yet to be written. -- Dries Buytaert :: http://www.buytaert.net/
Op dinsdag 2 mei 2006 10:27, schreef Dries Buytaert:
(ii) code that has yet to be written.
I tried a raodmap once. In the handbooks. It did not work, because (i) some people did not want it to work and (ii) people were not bothered about it, while (iii) it was too far hidden away to be of any real value. However, I learned one thing. The fact that I had some nice tasks on there brought in people whom might otherwise have been 'lost'. They mailed me in person, because my name was behind a certain item in that map. They needed that same goal/item done. Hence we had a team. So we can also see a roadmap as something to show peolpe the shortcut-roads to effective developement! Instead of hacking up i18n, or start i10n, or so, that developer can now see that there is an active team with clear goals and tasks, working on getting certain i18n features out there. He might just as well join, instead of the long route (mailinglists, IRC and more stuff that half of the developers don't have time for) on his own. Yes. groups.drupal.org will fullfill this purpose, I guess. If only we can summarise the activity on groups.drupal.org on a prominent page, then *we have a roadmap!* -- | Bèr Kessels | webschuur.com | website development | | Jabber & Google Talk: ber@jabber.webschuur.com | http://bler.webschuur.com | http://www.webschuur.com | Heeft het gebruik van Sympal gevolgen voor de eigendomsrechten van het gepubliceerde materiaal?: http://help.sympal.nl/heeft_het_gebruik_van_sympal_gevolgen_voor_de_eigendom...
On Tue, May 2, 2006 6:37 am, Bèr Kessels said:
I tried a raodmap once. In the handbooks. It did not work, because (i) some people did not want it to work and (ii) people were not bothered about it, while (iii) it was too far hidden away to be of any real value.
However, I learned one thing. The fact that I had some nice tasks on there brought in people whom might otherwise have been 'lost'. They mailed me in person, because my name was behind a certain item in that map. They needed that same goal/item done.
Hence we had a team.
So we can also see a roadmap as something to show peolpe the shortcut-roads to effective developement! Instead of hacking up i18n, or start i10n, or so, that developer can now see that there is an active team with clear goals and tasks, working on getting certain i18n features out there. He might just as well join, instead of the long route (mailinglists, IRC and more stuff that half of the developers don't have time for) on his own.
Yes. groups.drupal.org will fullfill this purpose, I guess. If only we can summarise the activity on groups.drupal.org on a prominent page, then *we have a roadmap!*
That would be sufficient, I think, if it's well aggregated and advertised. It doesn't have to be a "promise to clients", if we don't phrase it as one. Somthing as simple as: Rewrite all output to be a View: Moshe: 80% done CCK in core: chx: 20% done i18n in core: Adrian: postponed, not in 4.8 Would be quite helpful. Just a clear statement of where we stand with the big stuff, since figuring that out from just the project module is, well, nearly impossible. :-) (With due apologies to Moshe, chx, and Adrian. <g>) --Larry Garfield
One suggestion, I think what people are looking for in a roadmap is really a better view of what's going on and the opportunities to engage earlier than one could gathered from the current drupal site . So, instead of making this "roadmap" an artificial thing can we leverage/enhance the data that may already exist and make them more consumable to folks? I assume each feature has a "project" some where on the drupal site, but -- it lacks the information of its dependencies -- it lacks the information whether it will be included, dropped or committed for upgrades to the next release -- new projects are invisible to the outside world until bulk of the development has done. I will think a roadmap can simply be a report that is built out from those information. For example, the developers can first have a ticker on their project whether they want it to be in the next release or 18 months from now, and what new features/upgrades will be, the project leads can first run the report and perform some sanity check to see if they are reasonable. This should give the developers/project leads a good feel of the efforts and coordinations required, also to the end users: what's new, what's going to be updated etc to derive "what's the impact to me". A tally of the project activities can provide some indications on how active a project is, a voting to the project will also be nice to get user feedback. I like the proposal of personal battle plan, this will work well with the reporting system if parts of the information can be structured/categorized that go along with each person's project. Jenny
Observations: Gunnar Langemark "the thing is - Drupal is now so HUGE, that I could spend 3-4 hours a day just to keep updated with all that happens." Chris Johnson "Some people have busier lives than others and can't spend all day hanging out in IRC and reading innumerable mailing lists and forums." Khalid Baheyeldin "I cannot say more than what has been said. I used to be able to keep up with the forums and the mailing list. Now there is the mailing list, IRC, forums, groups, podcasts, videocasts, conferences...etc. Boris and others have been pushing for RSS as a way to keep up with things. Some still prefer the push style of email." In short, keeping up with all that is happening in Drupalia is a challenge. The project has grown and grown, and this is changing the dynamics of the community. That should be a separate discussion ...
participants (6)
-
Boerland, Bert -
Bèr Kessels -
Dries Buytaert -
Jenny Hsueh -
Khalid B -
Larry Garfield