update/replace the book module - poll, questions
We're hoping to have a replacement for the book module that will be more general for creating a hierarchical site structure. What should such a module be named? Poll here: http://groups.drupal.org/node/3941 joshk indicated a willingness to be involved in the coding, but we really need feedback on what kind of UI such a module should have: http://groups.drupal.org/drupal-dojo/book-project Also, a question- any suggestions for how the upgrade/install path should look (at the code level) if the module name changes? -Peter
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Peter Wolanin schrieb:
We're hoping to have a replacement for the book module that will be more general for creating a hierarchical site structure. What should such a module be named? Poll here:
http://groups.drupal.org/node/3941
joshk indicated a willingness to be involved in the coding, but we really need feedback on what kind of UI such a module should have: http://groups.drupal.org/drupal-dojo/book-project
Also, a question- any suggestions for how the upgrade/install path should look (at the code level) if the module name changes?
Does it need to change? Cheers, Gerhard -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGQJlNfg6TFvELooQRAtQMAJwLAQLB1ijrIn06IbJMIExGdMQWTwCdFbab V5j6895dfps3ryhYUXr8D1I= =Otft -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Gerhard Killesreiter wrote:
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Peter Wolanin schrieb:
We're hoping to have a replacement for the book module that will be more general for creating a hierarchical site structure. What should such a module be named? Poll here:
Does it need to change?
Unfortunately i think it does. I was initially very confused and didnt attempt to use this modules true purpose and ability for outlining and organizing content hierarchically because of the name. One of the most misnamed modules we have IMO. It just doesnt convey its ability. People seem to agree that outline is a preferred name and i concur that the new name does a much better job of conveying meaning. -- Michael Favia michael@favias.org tel. 512.585.5650 http://michael.favias.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Michael Favia schrieb:
Gerhard Killesreiter wrote:
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Peter Wolanin schrieb:
We're hoping to have a replacement for the book module that will be more general for creating a hierarchical site structure. What should such a module be named? Poll here:
Does it need to change?
Unfortunately i think it does. I was initially very confused and didnt attempt to use this modules true purpose and ability for outlining and organizing content hierarchically because of the name. One of the most misnamed modules we have IMO. It just doesnt convey its ability. People seem to agree that outline is a preferred name and i concur that the new name does a much better job of conveying meaning.
Heh, I've heard the contrary especially from new Drupal users. Everybody knows what a book is, but wtf is an outliner? I don't even know how I'd translate that to German. Cheers, Gerhard -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGQOlyfg6TFvELooQRAgKhAJ0f8P7W9EazZIl8HZXb6E3eNjtUrACeOls4 nZ0N4wbxzyZrtutpYppgARE= =QpSm -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Heh, I've heard the contrary especially from new Drupal users. Everybody knows what a book is, but wtf is an outliner? I don't even know how I'd translate that to German.
There is a poll ongoing. Outliner is a very bad name. but structure or something...
I must agree with Gerhard. I have no clue what outlining means. However, book is just as bad IMO as I can't quite relate it to the hierarchal structuring it provides. The same goes for taxonomy, which I still don't know what it means. I can use it, but I can't explain it. Structuring organize categories hierarchy are words that crossed my mind. Sorry for not being very creative/productive here. On 5/8/07, Gerhard Killesreiter <gerhard@killesreiter.de> wrote:
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Michael Favia schrieb:
Gerhard Killesreiter wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Peter Wolanin schrieb:
We're hoping to have a replacement for the book module that will be more general for creating a hierarchical site structure. What should such a module be named? Poll here:
Does it need to change?
Unfortunately i think it does. I was initially very confused and didnt attempt to use this modules true purpose and ability for outlining and organizing content hierarchically because of the name. One of the most misnamed modules we have IMO. It just doesnt convey its ability. People seem to agree that outline is a preferred name and i concur that the new name does a much better job of conveying meaning.
Heh, I've heard the contrary especially from new Drupal users. Everybody knows what a book is, but wtf is an outliner? I don't even know how I'd translate that to German.
Cheers, Gerhard -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
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-- Regards, Johan Forngren :: http://johan.forngren.com/
Although there is already a module with the name "booktree", I think it might be a good compromise by maintaining some book-name legacy and including the hierarchical connotation. Peter On 5/8/07, Johan Forngren <johan@forngren.com> wrote:
I must agree with Gerhard. I have no clue what outlining means. However, book is just as bad IMO as I can't quite relate it to the hierarchal structuring it provides. The same goes for taxonomy, which I still don't know what it means. I can use it, but I can't explain it.
Structuring organize categories hierarchy are words that crossed my mind.
Sorry for not being very creative/productive here.
On 5/8/07, Gerhard Killesreiter <gerhard@killesreiter.de> wrote:
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Michael Favia schrieb:
Gerhard Killesreiter wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Peter Wolanin schrieb:
We're hoping to have a replacement for the book module that will be more general for creating a hierarchical site structure. What should such a module be named? Poll here:
Does it need to change?
Unfortunately i think it does. I was initially very confused and didnt attempt to use this modules true purpose and ability for outlining and
organizing content hierarchically because of the name. One of the most misnamed modules we have IMO. It just doesnt convey its ability. People seem to agree that outline is a preferred name and i concur that the new name does a much better job of conveying meaning.
Heh, I've heard the contrary especially from new Drupal users. Everybody knows what a book is, but wtf is an outliner? I don't even know how I'd translate that to German.
Cheers, Gerhard -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
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-- Regards, Johan Forngren :: http://johan.forngren.com/
It's funny to see all of the names getting around the point. +1 for *hierarchy* Peter S. Requadt wrote:
Although there is already a module with the name "booktree", I think it might be a good compromise by maintaining some book-name legacy and including the hierarchical connotation. Peter
On 5/8/07, *Johan Forngren* <johan@forngren.com <mailto:johan@forngren.com>> wrote:
I must agree with Gerhard. I have no clue what outlining means. However, book is just as bad IMO as I can't quite relate it to the hierarchal structuring it provides. The same goes for taxonomy, which I still don't know what it means. I can use it, but I can't explain it.
Structuring organize categories hierarchy are words that crossed my mind.
Sorry for not being very creative/productive here.
On 5/8/07, *Gerhard Killesreiter * <gerhard@killesreiter.de <mailto:gerhard@killesreiter.de>> wrote:
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Michael Favia schrieb: > Gerhard Killesreiter wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Peter Wolanin schrieb: >> >>> We're hoping to have a replacement for the book module that will be >>> more general for creating a hierarchical site structure. What should >>> such a module be named? Poll here: >>> >> Does it need to change? >> > Unfortunately i think it does. I was initially very confused and didnt > attempt to use this modules true purpose and ability for outlining and > organizing content hierarchically because of the name. One of the most > misnamed modules we have IMO. It just doesnt convey its ability. People > seem to agree that outline is a preferred name and i concur that the new > name does a much better job of conveying meaning.
Heh, I've heard the contrary especially from new Drupal users. Everybody knows what a book is, but wtf is an outliner? I don't even know how I'd translate that to German.
Cheers, Gerhard -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
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-- Regards, Johan Forngren :: http://johan.forngren.com/
-- John
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Johan Forngren schrieb:
I must agree with Gerhard. I have no clue what outlining means. However, book is just as bad IMO as I can't quite relate it to the hierarchal structuring it provides. The same goes for taxonomy, which I still don't know what it means. I can use it, but I can't explain it.
Rather sad considering that modern taxonomy was invented in Sweden. :p http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_von_Linn%C3%A9 http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxonomi Cheers, Ger»SCNR«hard -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGQQYwfg6TFvELooQRAoSnAJ9OI1IKLIrRzN+c94shbAysrVvgFQCfTLPG CASvXkooEkgjQIcwHbcvEDE= =0QxV -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
I am probably missing something obvious, but why not just leverage the parent-child relationships defined in the menu system and do away with book entirely? It seems like the only things book does that menu doesn't is put in the cute next/prev and children links, which would be easy enough to add in. Other than that it is just UI. cheers, -t Karoly Negyesi wrote:
Does it need to change?
Yes. Remember Dries' little game 'how would you create this simple site' from a year or two ago -- the best approach was book but that was so unintutive...
Quoting Tao Starbow <starbow@citris-uc.org>:
I am probably missing something obvious, but why not just leverage the parent-child relationships defined in the menu system and do away with book entirely? It seems like the only things book does that menu doesn't is put in the cute next/prev and children links, which would be easy enough to add in. Other than that it is just UI.
From my experimentation with the book module, it also provided a nice feature to chain node entries to a parent. I think the feature is nice and leveraging the API of the menu may help but the idea of book content type is a good one. Perhaps rather than renaming as has been suggested that we look at the properties of a book and enhance the module. There are various types of books and our book module currently tends to gravitate toward chapter books. Within chapter books we find a preface, table of contents, and the body of the book. Some we even find an index. The preface is a summary or teaser of the body of the book, the table of contents is an outline or menu of the body of the book and the index is a taxonomy of the body of the book. The book has a title which becomes a menu which in turn is the table of contents. The preface becomes the first item of the menu. The chapter titles become items of the menu as well as the node title. The chapter has sections which become children of the chapter menu items. Earnie
Oh yes, let's just rename it. After all we have no years of historical need to be consistent with our names. The rename of taxonomy to categories in the UI has worked out excellently for everyone. Especially as someone submitted a contrib. module named categories. That hasn't resulted in any support/forum or documentation issues at all. There is no need to concern anyone with the vast number of forum and documentation posts (or the few bits of marketing material) that reference book module as a way to make a site. Renaming it will result in years of confusion. Which has been a PAIN with taxonomy/category UI. IF it does get renamed, then we get to hunt down _anyone_ who submits or approves a contrib. module named 'book'. It would have been better to write documentation that educated people. -sp
-----Original Message----- From: development-bounces@drupal.org [mailto:development- bounces@drupal.org] On Behalf Of Peter Wolanin Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 8:27 AM To: development@drupal.org Subject: [development] update/replace the book module - poll, questions
We're hoping to have a replacement for the book module that will be more general for creating a hierarchical site structure. What should such a module be named? Poll here:
http://groups.drupal.org/node/3941
joshk indicated a willingness to be involved in the coding, but we really need feedback on what kind of UI such a module should have: http://groups.drupal.org/drupal-dojo/book-project
Also, a question- any suggestions for how the upgrade/install path should look (at the code level) if the module name changes?
-Peter
participants (10)
-
Earnie Boyd -
Gerhard Killesreiter -
Johan Forngren -
John Vandervort -
Karoly Negyesi -
Michael Favia -
Peter S. Requadt -
Peter Wolanin -
Steven Peck -
Tao Starbow