I recently promised merlinofchaos that I would help with the Views 2 documentation. I'm glad that I did. In reviewing Drupal 6 reviews posted across the web, I'd recently read the "Views preview" section of the post http://tek4dpipol.blogspot.com/2008/02/look-at-drupal-6-core-features-2.html, complete with screenshot. I'd seen various Views UI related posts on g.d.o, though I didn't follow any of them closely. I'd seen UI-related discussion scroll past in IRC. I assumed I was pretty well on top of "state of the art" Drupal interface designs. I was so very wrong. I checked out Views 2 over the weekend, in order to get a feel for how I might could help with strings and documentation. It is fair to say that the new interface "blew me away." It is not evolutionary, but revolutionary. Thomas Kuhn would call it a paradigm shift. It's damn sexy. Earl, what I've seen so far is just fantastic. You -- and everyone who has helped you with this -- have made something special here. I think I want to be you when I grow up. --ks
Keith Smith wrote:
I recently promised merlinofchaos that I would help with the Views 2 documentation. I'm glad that I did.
In reviewing Drupal 6 reviews posted across the web, I'd recently read the "Views preview" section of the post http://tek4dpipol.blogspot.com/2008/02/look-at-drupal-6-core-features-2.html, complete with screenshot. I'd seen various Views UI related posts on g.d.o, though I didn't follow any of them closely. I'd seen UI-related discussion scroll past in IRC. I assumed I was pretty well on top of "state of the art" Drupal interface designs.
I was so very wrong.
I checked out Views 2 over the weekend, in order to get a feel for how I might could help with strings and documentation. It is fair to say that the new interface "blew me away." It is not evolutionary, but revolutionary. Thomas Kuhn would call it a paradigm shift. It's damn sexy.
Earl, what I've seen so far is just fantastic. You -- and everyone who has helped you with this -- have made something special here. I think I want to be you when I grow up.
--ks
Thanks Keith! I rolled an official alpha release so people can play with this. I'm very interested in feedback about this UI from the community (admittedly I like positive feedback here, but I'll accept the negative too =) Personally, this UI feels far, far better than I thought it would. And I am likely biased; I understand it very well. But manipulating a view is easy. My only question is...how difficult is this to understand? The idea here is that it's broken up into bite-sized chunks so that the amount of understanding needed at any given time is reduced. I think that helps a lot. Here's the release announcement and a screenshot: http://www.angrydonuts.com/views-6-x-2-0-alpha-2-released
Earl Miles wrote:
Here's the release announcement and a screenshot: http://www.angrydonuts.com/views-6-x-2-0-alpha-2-released
BTW, IMO the screenshot doesn't do it justice. You have to click around in it and actually build a view with it to get a really good feel.
Earl Miles wrote:
Thanks Keith!
I rolled an official alpha release so people can play with this. I'm very interested in feedback about this UI from the community (admittedly I like positive feedback here, but I'll accept the negative too =) I gave it a try and I have to say the interface is much more intuitive than before, but I can't see this kind of UI working with many other modules, Views is one of a kind.
One problem with the Views 2 UI is that it doesn't guide the user along, instead it presents everything at once in panels across and down the page, I had to stare at it for a while to figure out what the next step was. However it makes up for this somewhat by splitting different displays into 'tabs' on the side of the page and also uses a kind of 'mini-wizard' for configuring each setting (I noticed some settings had multiple steps). Overall I think the interface is a big improvement over Views 1, but the layout is unlike anything else in Drupal and the last thing I want to see in Drupal is inconsistency.
Rowan Wigginton wrote:
Overall I think the interface is a big improvement over Views 1, but the layout is unlike anything else in Drupal and the last thing I want to see in Drupal is inconsistency.
That's definitely an issue. In a way I hope this triggers more stuff to work like this, but you're right; most things probably won't. For Views...it may just be its own beast for awhile.
On 19 Feb 2008, at 1:08 AM, Earl Miles wrote:
That's definitely an issue. In a way I hope this triggers more stuff to work like this, but you're right; most things probably won't.
I can think of a couple of things that could work this way. Site "section" configuration with theme / block layout per section for instance.
Hi, ( - have mercy if this is no the right channel to adres ;-) - this is not about drush ... which is a GREAT tool and time saver - I just got sick and tired checking all boxes when installing ie ubercart ... now i can run: "drush mm enable uc_cart" ) I just submitted a patch for drush (D5) for enabling/disabling modules as a way to open up discussion about module (de)installing and enable/disabling. Moshe pointed me to http://drupal.org/node/211182 which was dancing between D6 and D7 version. The patch http://drupal.org/node/220945#comment-738292 uses an - Acyclic Directed Graph to find out the right order to enable/disable/uninstall - Topological Sorted List to do the actual work (as nifty side effect is being able to create http://drupal.org/files/issues/graph.gif) So who is willing to discuss this with me @ FOSDEM Regards, ngnp @ irc Clemens Tolboom
Moshe pointed me to http://drupal.org/node/211182 which was dancing between D6 and D7 version.
The patch http://drupal.org/node/220945#comment-738292 uses an - Acyclic Directed Graph to find out the right order to enable/disable/uninstall - Topological Sorted List to do the actual work
(as nifty side effect is being able to create http://drupal.org/files/issues/graph.gif)
Hello, brother! Finally, I am not alone with speaking DAGs. Fine, fine. If you look into _module_build_dependencies in Drupal 6 you will find a fairly naive implementation to determine whether the dependency graph is acyclic or not and then drupal_install_modules has another naive implementation of topological sort. It should use DFS but -- I thought the graph is too small for that. I have DFS based topological sort in weights.php in my sandbox. Let's discuss more. A very happy Karoly Negyesi who is finally not alone with bringing graph theory to Drupal.
Thanks for the pointers ... i'll have a look at them As for 'too small for DFS' is think that http://drupal.org/files/issues/graph.gif is not so trivial to walk through. I hope some people @ FOSDEM join in to prepare/create some patches. On Thu, 2008-02-21 at 03:01 +0100, Karoly Negyesi wrote:
Moshe pointed me to http://drupal.org/node/211182 which was dancing between D6 and D7 version.
The patch http://drupal.org/node/220945#comment-738292 uses an - Acyclic Directed Graph to find out the right order to enable/disable/uninstall - Topological Sorted List to do the actual work
(as nifty side effect is being able to create http://drupal.org/files/issues/graph.gif)
Hello, brother! Finally, I am not alone with speaking DAGs. Fine, fine. If you look into _module_build_dependencies in Drupal 6 you will find a fairly naive implementation to determine whether the dependency graph is acyclic or not and then drupal_install_modules has another naive implementation of topological sort. It should use DFS but -- I thought the graph is too small for that. I have DFS based topological sort in weights.php in my sandbox. Let's discuss more.
A very happy Karoly Negyesi who is finally not alone with bringing graph theory to Drupal. -- Clemens Tolboom build2be KvK NL020994130000
info@build2be.nl http://build2be.nl +31(0)6 10 27 96 95
A you following along my steps into the drupal core minefield? -- Clemens Tolboom build2be KvK NL020994130000 info@build2be.nl http://build2be.nl +31(0)6 10 27 96 95
After submitting this [development] How to make better dependency checks in D5, D6, D7? and having talked to some people @ FOSDEM i decided to write some pages about my thought. The bottom line is: 1. module (dependency) code is scattered around in module.inc, install.php, update.php, system.module 2. this can be and should be done better. 3. some parts are trivial, some are i guess not. Please read my thoughts about improving D7 on module dependency http://build2be.com/content/module-management-drupal and watch the drush module management movie over there or @ http://blip.tv/file/713175/ I guess I have to prove this by providing patches but because of the scattering Regards, -- Clemens Tolboom build2be http://build2be.com
Rowan Wigginton wrote:
Earl Miles wrote:
Thanks Keith!
I rolled an official alpha release so people can play with this. I'm very interested in feedback about this UI from the community (admittedly I like positive feedback here, but I'll accept the negative too =) I gave it a try and I have to say the interface is much more intuitive than before, but I can't see this kind of UI working with many other modules, Views is one of a kind.
One problem with the Views 2 UI is that it doesn't guide the user along, instead it presents everything at once in panels across and down the page, I had to stare at it for a while to figure out what the next step was. However it makes up for this somewhat by splitting different displays into 'tabs' on the side of the page and also uses a kind of 'mini-wizard' for configuring each setting (I noticed some settings had multiple steps).
Overall I think the interface is a big improvement over Views 1, but the layout is unlike anything else in Drupal and the last thing I want to see in Drupal is inconsistency.
I like how Panels 2 leads you through with 'next' buttons. Maybe something like that can be incorporated into Views 2. But that can be thought about later; not necessary for first release.
One of my personal goals for the D7 release cycle is getting the "guts" of views -- the back end code rather than the front-end UI -- into core. I think it's worth pointing out that third-party front ends to the Views module can be built, too, with simpler UIs and/or streamlined workflow. One of the challenges the 'full' Views UI module faces is the need to expose ALL of the API's capabilities. --Jeff On Feb 18, 2008, at 4:58 PM, Rowan Wigginton wrote:
Earl Miles wrote:
Thanks Keith!
I rolled an official alpha release so people can play with this. I'm very interested in feedback about this UI from the community (admittedly I like positive feedback here, but I'll accept the negative too =) I gave it a try and I have to say the interface is much more intuitive than before, but I can't see this kind of UI working with many other modules, Views is one of a kind.
One problem with the Views 2 UI is that it doesn't guide the user along, instead it presents everything at once in panels across and down the page, I had to stare at it for a while to figure out what the next step was. However it makes up for this somewhat by splitting different displays into 'tabs' on the side of the page and also uses a kind of 'mini-wizard' for configuring each setting (I noticed some settings had multiple steps).
Overall I think the interface is a big improvement over Views 1, but the layout is unlike anything else in Drupal and the last thing I want to see in Drupal is inconsistency.
On 17 Feb 2008, at 9:27 PM, Keith Smith wrote:
I checked out Views 2 over the weekend, in order to get a feel for how I might could help with strings and documentation. It is fair to say that the new interface "blew me away." It is not evolutionary, but revolutionary. Thomas Kuhn would call it a paradigm shift. It's damn sexy.
hear hear. it's very sexy. I showed it off to quite a few people this weekend. It's also at a place where others can help out now =)
participants (8)
-
Aaron Winborn -
adrian rossouw -
Clemens Tolboom -
Earl Miles -
Jeff Eaton -
Karoly Negyesi -
Keith Smith -
Rowan Wigginton