In this case, I think the real trick for giving back is to try to avoid one-off custom solutions, and instead try (as best you can for each project) to patch or extend existing projects. That said, we have a 'custom' module installed by default on all new projects, and lots of one-off code invariably gets in there. But here's a concrete example: I got very tired of using the theme layer to code links to custom paths in Views. The result: http://drupal.org/node/349178, which went into the core Views module (and merlinofchaos spiced up with added layers of awesome). If one such patch comes out of each project (or, say, if you managed to close 2 issues in the core issue queue per project) then you're giving back. The key, for me, is not coding in a vacuum that ignores improvements to core and features in contrib. - Ken agentrickard On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:09 AM, Robert Douglass<rob@robshouse.net> wrote:

You lazy blood sucking pig! (did that confirm your worst fears? ;-)

I think you describe what is actually the _typical_ Drupal developer - the vast majority of people doing Drupal development work just like you describe, and there's nothing wrong with that. Not everyone is going to be able to be a module maintainer, for one reason or another, and that's fine.

If you want to release your code and hope that it takes a life of its own, write blog posts about it, attach the zip file, and make sure it gets aggregated by Drupal Planet. You can add lots of caveats like "Needs cleaning up, needs install and uninstall routines, has some specific settings that could use an admin settings page." Make sure it is GNU 2.0 licensed from the start. In doing this you'll help others while helping yourself. You'll help others by making the code available, in case it's useful for them, and you'll help yourself by having useful information and code on your development blog which will further your reputation and bring you the next round of great clients. Plus you may even get feedback that will lead to better code.

Thanks for sharing this concern. I wonder how many people on this list feel guilty because they feel they "haven't contributed enough"?

-Robert

-----Original Message----- From: Sam Polenta <sam.polenta@gmail.com> Reply-to: development@drupal.org To: development@drupal.org Subject: [development] Why I don't Upload a Module to Drupal Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:57:22 +0300

I have made a few custom modules for clients. Some of them maybe other people would want. I would be happy to give them to whoever wants them, BUT it's not necessarily so simple as that.

Mostly they have some customization for the particular site so I would have to generalize them like with a settings page etc. Then I would have to clean up the code a bit. Some would need an install and uninstall routine which I didn't do because it's only for one site anyway.

I would be happy even, in theory, to release them on drupal.org but aside from the time to prepare them, which I don't really have, I also don't have time to support them. So I figure even if I did fix it up a bit and put it online, I am then expected to support it. I am not a lazy person nor do I just suck the blood of everyone else who contributes to Drupal without giving back. I do try to help people on the forums a bit and the truth is that I help to "make the world a better place" in other ways. I volunteer at a local NPO to help people--when I sit down at the computer, it's mostly to work. I need to make a living and this is how I do it.

So I don't think I'm a total pig--not at all really because I do volunteer my time, but just for other causes aside from Drupal.

Do people think my reasons are wrong for not releasing my code? I guess the main thing is that I'm not prepared to support any issues or requests etc. that may come up.

Thanks.

-- Ken Rickard agentrickard@gmail.com http://ken.therickards.com

Thanks for sharing this concern. I wonder how many people on this list feel guilty because they feel they "haven't contributed enough"?

Belonging exactly to this category, I'd say there must be quite a few. Perhaps there should be a Drupal handbook section for code or projects that are written for specific purposes (why they aren't contributed in the first place) which the authors want to release so that it might come in handy for somebody else. Best _Pavan On Monday 17 August 2009 19:39:49 Robert Douglass wrote:

You lazy blood sucking pig! (did that confirm your worst fears? ;-)

I think you describe what is actually the _typical_ Drupal developer - the vast majority of people doing Drupal development work just like you describe, and there's nothing wrong with that. Not everyone is going to be able to be a module maintainer, for one reason or another, and that's fine.

If you want to release your code and hope that it takes a life of its own, write blog posts about it, attach the zip file, and make sure it gets aggregated by Drupal Planet. You can add lots of caveats like "Needs cleaning up, needs install and uninstall routines, has some specific settings that could use an admin settings page." Make sure it is GNU 2.0 licensed from the start. In doing this you'll help others while helping yourself. You'll help others by making the code available, in case it's useful for them, and you'll help yourself by having useful information and code on your development blog which will further your reputation and bring you the next round of great clients. Plus you may even get feedback that will lead to better code.

Thanks for sharing this concern. I wonder how many people on this list feel guilty because they feel they "haven't contributed enough"?

-Robert

-----Original Message----- From: Sam Polenta <sam.polenta@gmail.com> Reply-to: development@drupal.org To: development@drupal.org Subject: [development] Why I don't Upload a Module to Drupal Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:57:22 +0300

I have made a few custom modules for clients. Some of them maybe other people would want. I would be happy to give them to whoever wants them, BUT it's not necessarily so simple as that.

Mostly they have some customization for the particular site so I would have to generalize them like with a settings page etc. Then I would have to clean up the code a bit. Some would need an install and uninstall routine which I didn't do because it's only for one site anyway.

I would be happy even, in theory, to release them on drupal.org but aside from the time to prepare them, which I don't really have, I also don't have time to support them. So I figure even if I did fix it up a bit and put it online, I am then expected to support it. I am not a lazy person nor do I just suck the blood of everyone else who contributes to Drupal without giving back. I do try to help people on the forums a bit and the truth is that I help to "make the world a better place" in other ways. I volunteer at a local NPO to help people--when I sit down at the computer, it's mostly to work. I need to make a living and this is how I do it.

So I don't think I'm a total pig--not at all really because I do volunteer my time, but just for other causes aside from Drupal.

Do people think my reasons are wrong for not releasing my code? I guess the main thing is that I'm not prepared to support any issues or requests etc. that may come up.

Thanks.

-- -Pavan Keshavamurthy http://grahana.net/

You lazy blood sucking pig! (did that confirm your worst fears? ;-)

Hey, were you writing to me or the OP? :) Something interesting I could say is that I once saw 3 people post on d.o about the same feature they wanted. I figured I could code it up in a few hours. So I emailed all 3 and told them I was emailing all 3 and said if each of you wants to cough up fifty smackers, I will code it. I was a bit more professional in my language of course. ;) But guess what? Not even one responded. Maybe they're "lazy blood sucking pigs" also, eh? I really admire those folks who put in hours to make and maintain big modules and of course core itself. Always wondered really how they do it. Nobody's giving them any awards for it I don't think. F

It took me a minute to parse the language, but I think Fred is saying he asked 3 people to kick in $50 each ($150 total) to write some code for them and they weren't interested. I agree that the foss model is overwhelming and confusing for many. I think we are each of us passionate about Drupal, to varying degrees of course, and our work generally falls into one of 2 categories: stuff we are personally passionate about (usually ends up as contribs), and work we get paid for. On many occasions, someones skill and passion intersects with someone elses need, and they end up with what they need for no cost. Often times this isn't the case. Probably preaching to the choir here. For me, an hourly rate is compensation primarily for using time which could otherwise be spent on stuff I'm personally passionate about. That is of course not to say that we as consultants aren't passionate about paid work, usually just the opposite. Unless the pay is so stellar that manufacturing passion is realistic (hey, it happens!), I try to take paid gigs that align with my interests-I think that's best for everyone. Fwiw. D On Aug 17, 2009, at 12:24 PM, Robert Douglass <rob@robshouse.net> wrote:

Fred - I was just joking, of course.

I'm not surprised that nobody responded to your offer. $50 is a very low price to pay for a feature/module, but many people are overwhelmed by the "freeness" of it all, and mistake open source with "at no cost". Chances are there is also some company out there willing to pay thousands for the same feature/module. Making efficient markets is essential.

And as for rewards, I can tell you that the most rewarding thing I do at work on any day is cvs commit -m "new feature for apachesolr"

I can't explain it, but it tops all other forms of professional satisfaction. I enjoy developing modules so much that it's a dream come true that someone pays me to do it.

Glad you're looking for ways to help - it generated a good thread!

-Robert

----Original Message----- From: Fred Jones <fredthejonester@gmail.com> To: development@drupal.org, rob@robshouse.net Subject: Re: [development] Why I don't Upload a Module to Drupal Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 22:08:01 +0300

...

You lazy blood sucking pig! (did that confirm your worst fears? ;-)

Hey, were you writing to me or the OP? :)

Something interesting I could say is that I once saw 3 people post on d.o about the same feature they wanted. I figured I could code it up in a few hours. So I emailed all 3 and told them I was emailing all 3 and said if each of you wants to cough up fifty smackers, I will code it. I was a bit more professional in my language of course. ;)

But guess what? Not even one responded.

Maybe they're "lazy blood sucking pigs" also, eh?

I really admire those folks who put in hours to make and maintain big modules and of course core itself. Always wondered really how they do it. Nobody's giving them any awards for it I don't think.

F

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 8:37 AM, Fred Jones <fredthejonester@gmail.com>wrote:

That, or people just want everything free. "Why should I pay you when all the other modules are free? What kind of programmer are you?" lol

There was a fellow on IRC a few weeks ago arguing that someone should hand over their entire site to him so he could use it to learn from. His argument is he shouldn't have to go through all the work of figuring it out for himself when others have already done it and he can just look at what they did. Some folks just place no value on other peoples' time. I've spent hundreds of hours on my modules. It's mostly satisfying and I enjoy making something that other people use. But there are days when I wonder why I'm giving all my time away for free. When folks come around and demand that I give even more for free, I can have a pretty short fuse. LOL Michelle

This is also a complaint running about developing for a project that has 100's of thousands of hours put in by a completely distributed group of people. Think of the amount of time the core group has put in over the years to get it where it is now that all of us can download it and have it up. 8 years of work and learning from those experiences for us all to snap up and build on the shoulders of giants in a few clicks. I always think of it in those terms and then me giving away 100 hours (about 400 in the last two projects :p) doesn't seem as big a deal. I do share a similar short fuse when it comes to requests on that code. I think at the very least getting your code out there helps everyone, improves your visibility (which helps you) and isn't going to do anyone else any good sitting locked up in the basement as a custom made, unpublished module. I buy in too much to the culture of free though I guess :p btopro On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 10:16 PM, Jeff Greenberg <jeff@ayendesigns.com>wrote:

Michelle Cox wrote:

...

I've spent hundreds of hours on my modules. It's mostly satisfying and I enjoy making something that other people use. But there are days when I wonder why I'm giving all my time away for free. When folks come around and demand that I give even more for free, I can have a pretty short fuse. LOL

Michelle

Hi Michelle, I certainly value your time and work...I've mentioned that before (baalwww). Here's my two cents based on over 30 years of software development in all types of roles: there will always be camps on everything! There are camps as to which hardware should be used, which programming language, which architecture, which cms, and, as I've seen here more and more, the same when it comes to the thought of whether apps should be provided for free or whether someone's time should be compensated (let alone, compensated profitably or beyond). My feeling: if ALL my work is to be for the greater good, then someone needs to start paying for the things that aren't provided to me out of the greater good, like my mortgage, gasoline, food...

Jeff Greenberg wrote:

I don't think there's anything wrong with free, or with people making code available if they wish. I tend to draw the line, in my own head, when people begin to treat it as compulsory. Donating time is a donation. Seems simple, but I think that's beyond a lot of folks. Like any donation, it's up to each person what they feel they can 'afford' to donate, and not up to the people receiving the donation to tell them it's insufficient.

Not only that, but people who may not release code can (and do) give back in other ways. The knowledge I obtain while writing code that isn't released into the wild can come in handy when people ask questions on the support list. There are also times when working on private code you might realize a way in which core or a contrib module could run more efficiently, or have some new great feature. You find that out and go fill out a ticket and (hopefully) a patch. Giving back code is a great contribution to the project, but only one way to contribute. The key to a great OS project is the organic nature of it - every little part acting as an organ to support the life of the whole body. Some remain as simpler life forms, very few organisms working that well together, while others flourish into full blown bodies comparable to humans. As for Drupal - well we are close to being the Six Million Dollar Man :D Jamie Holly http://www.intoxination.net http://www.hollyit.net