Drupal 6 vs. language support
Hi, Seems like a status report is in order, so people know what is in, and what needs to be looked at still. There are only two weeks left until code freeze, so those who think language support in Drupal 6 is important would be welcome to come out with their reviewer hats. What is in Drupal 6 for multilanguage support: - "locales" are replaced by "languages" (we know a lot more about languages: their native names, direction (RTL or LTR), languages can be weighted, we use the new BCP 47 language codes, etc) - language based paths and domains are supported - automatic language detection based on browser settings is supported - nodes can have a language associated - the locale tables are capable of storing translations for user defined strings (BUT this is not possible yet, read on!) The two most important things that should be done, with patches for you to review: - translation of site settings, content types, user profile fields and so on by storing translations of their string properties with the locale infrastructure, enabling import/export and simple editing: http://drupal.org/node/141461 (also watch this video: http://hojtsy.hu/drop/dtvideo.mpeg ) - translation support for nodes by relating nodes together (and possibly their revisions): http://drupal.org/node/142280 We have other smaller issues lingering, but these two are the ones we can't manage without your valuable input and review! Unless we get reviews on these issues and we can manage to get a polished version of these into Drupal 6, it will not be the multilanguage release many people hope it to be. It would be sad to miss this opportunity for world domination. Gabor
On 15 May 2007, at 12:31, Gabor Hojtsy wrote:
The two most important things that should be done, with patches for you to review:
- translation of site settings, content types, user profile fields and so on by storing translations of their string properties with the locale infrastructure, enabling import/export and simple editing: http://drupal.org/node/141461 (also watch this video: http://hojtsy.hu/drop/dtvideo.mpeg )
- translation support for nodes by relating nodes together (and possibly their revisions): http://drupal.org/node/142280
It would be great to see all of the i18n patches make it into Drupal 6. However, there doesn't seem to be enough quality reviews for the i18n patches. People who care about i18n in Drupal 6, should start helping now ... or it might be too late. Help! -- Dries Buytaert :: http://www.buytaert.net/
Op 15-mei-2007, om 18:22 heeft Dries Buytaert het volgende geschreven:
On 15 May 2007, at 12:31, Gabor Hojtsy wrote:
The two most important things that should be done, with patches for you to review:
- translation of site settings, content types, user profile fields and so on by storing translations of their string properties with the locale infrastructure, enabling import/export and simple editing: http://drupal.org/node/141461 (also watch this video: http://hojtsy.hu/drop/dtvideo.mpeg )
- translation support for nodes by relating nodes together (and possibly their revisions): http://drupal.org/node/142280
It would be great to see all of the i18n patches make it into Drupal 6. However, there doesn't seem to be enough quality reviews for the i18n patches. People who care about i18n in Drupal 6, should start helping now ... or it might be too late. Help
I think everybody should care about the i18n patches. The new multi- language stuff is the only milestone we've got this release, not spectacular other new features are in, right? The rest of the new stuff is great for the developers, but for the "end-user" (who ever that are).... Stefan
2007/5/15, Gabor Hojtsy <gabor@hojtsy.hu>:
What is in Drupal 6 for multilanguage support:
- "locales" are replaced by "languages" (we know a lot more about languages: their native names, direction (RTL or LTR), languages can be weighted, we use the new BCP 47 language codes, etc)
Can you provide a link to the discussion about this? Personally, I find that the above makes no sense. Locales are per-culture, languages are... per-language. Localisation is more than just translating, it's also about improving useability for a given locale (using colour codes and symbols familiar to locale comes to mind). Also, locale codes are partly defined by language (language_LOCALE), so all the language stuff you know about, you'd still know about given a locale. (I recall localisation being brought up for the issue regarding "* Required", which would, IIRC, be an excellent case for an argument of localisation vs. pure translation.) But, well, if you can link me to the discussion, I might be convinced it was a good move. :) -- Frederik 'Freso' S. Olesen <http://freso.dk/>
Frederik 'Freso' S. Olesen wrote:
2007/5/15, Gabor Hojtsy <gabor@hojtsy.hu>:
What is in Drupal 6 for multilanguage support:
- "locales" are replaced by "languages" (we know a lot more about languages: their native names, direction (RTL or LTR), languages can be weighted, we use the new BCP 47 language codes, etc)
Can you provide a link to the discussion about this?
Personally, I find that the above makes no sense. Locales are per-culture, languages are... per-language. Localisation is more than just translating, it's also about improving useability for a given locale (using colour codes and symbols familiar to locale comes to mind). Also, locale codes are partly defined by language (language_LOCALE), so all the language stuff you know about, you'd still know about given a locale. (I recall localisation being brought up for the issue regarding "* Required", which would, IIRC, be an excellent case for an argument of localisation vs. pure translation.)
But, well, if you can link me to the discussion, I might be convinced it was a good move. :)
Frederik, our locale.module is misnamed in this context. Drupal itself has no strong support for localization in the sense of supporting different number formatting, colors, currencies and so on, it never had. Drupal has support for languages. The fact that we renamed part of what locale module uses/does is hopefully helping clean up this possible confusion. Now we use the 'locale' name for interface translation stuff and 'language' for system level language support. Locale is still not correct there, but it was there and some separation was required. So by renaming the "locales" to "languages" at the same time we *expanded on* language support to enable themes to support RTL scripts, use native names of the languages and so on. We still did nothing about actually supporting the real intricacies of locales behind languages, we did not add any features on this front, nor did we remove anything. BTW there is no such thing named *locale codes* used on the web. We support the latest and greatest in standards around *language codes*, BCP 47. Gabor
What's the status for file translations? On 5/15/07, Gabor Hojtsy <gabor@hojtsy.hu> wrote:
Hi,
Seems like a status report is in order, so people know what is in, and what needs to be looked at still. There are only two weeks left until code freeze, so those who think language support in Drupal 6 is important would be welcome to come out with their reviewer hats.
What is in Drupal 6 for multilanguage support:
- "locales" are replaced by "languages" (we know a lot more about languages: their native names, direction (RTL or LTR), languages can be weighted, we use the new BCP 47 language codes, etc)
- language based paths and domains are supported
- automatic language detection based on browser settings is supported
- nodes can have a language associated
- the locale tables are capable of storing translations for user defined strings (BUT this is not possible yet, read on!)
The two most important things that should be done, with patches for you to review:
- translation of site settings, content types, user profile fields and so on by storing translations of their string properties with the locale infrastructure, enabling import/export and simple editing: http://drupal.org/node/141461 (also watch this video: http://hojtsy.hu/drop/dtvideo.mpeg )
- translation support for nodes by relating nodes together (and possibly their revisions): http://drupal.org/node/142280
We have other smaller issues lingering, but these two are the ones we can't manage without your valuable input and review! Unless we get reviews on these issues and we can manage to get a polished version of these into Drupal 6, it will not be the multilanguage release many people hope it to be. It would be sad to miss this opportunity for world domination.
Gabor
-- Regards, Johan Forngren :: http://johan.forngren.com/
Johan Forngren wrote:
What's the status for file translations?
It is not even possible to translate nodes in Drupal 6 yet, so file (I assume you mean node attachment) translations are quite far a stretch now. Why not review the node translation patch first? :) Gabor
I really am interested in localization in drupal 6 but I'm busy to my ears (it's becoming a habit for me to sleep at 5 AM everyday and this is wrecking me). Also, I'm still only recently getting acquainted with the drupal core code so that itself will take me time to go over. Nevertheless, I will definitely go over all your pending localization patches soon, could we please delay the code freeze a little? Drupal is actually the only application I know of where the time between releases is so extremely short. I know where arguments against that had lead to so I won't waste my time, but I'm simply requesting that we not act like companies that would rather deliver garbage rather than extend a deadline. A deadline is an estimation and like all human activities, it could/should naturally change. I'm requesting that this specific code freeze be flexed a bit. Whoever is against that cares more about the "some" rather than the "all". We're all looking forward to drupal 6, but to a spectacular drupal 6 rather than a buggy incomplete one. Many patches would benefit from more battering, and many more others need reviews and optimization. I'd hate to think that someone may feel forced to provide something he knows could be more optimal just to meet a deadline. 2-4 extra weeks would only make the end result more tested, solid and hopefully more optimized and efficient. But that's just my opinion here. On 5/17/07, Gabor Hojtsy <gabor@hojtsy.hu> wrote:
Johan Forngren wrote:
What's the status for file translations?
It is not even possible to translate nodes in Drupal 6 yet, so file (I assume you mean node attachment) translations are quite far a stretch now. Why not review the node translation patch first? :)
Gabor
participants (6)
-
Ashraf Amayreh -
Dries Buytaert -
Frederik 'Freso' S. Olesen -
Gabor Hojtsy -
Johan Forngren -
Stefan Nagtegaal